This is something I think UBI could help with, at least a form that allows you to survive without working. Being able to quit without worrying how you’ll make rent is super empowering and is something therapy can’t provide.
This wouldn’t work for everyone, but I think there’s a good chance overall productivity would improve if people felt like that instead of terriified of losing a job. Maybe then people would stand up for problems they see instead of hiding it so it’s someone else’s problem.
You had a crap therapist too if i may say so. I’m sorry that happened and happy that you are in a better place now!
I worked in costumer service for many years and was yelled at a lot, just like you. You know what my therapist said?
He said (paraphrased): “I can’t understand how these people dare treat another human being like that. Your anger about what happened is completely justified. Lets work on what we can do to improve your situation.”
We talked a lot about how to distance yourself from the situation while it happens, to not be afraid to tell people to stop yelling if that doesn’t work, rationalizing fears related to job loss, healthy ways to express aggression to vent without hurting yourself. That’s what a therapist should do, not tell you to grow a thicker hide (that is what will kill you in the long run if you are so detached from your feelings that you get completely overwhelmed if that fails even once).
I agree with @sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works that in the long run UBI will be needed to help with that - the way it goes currently means sooner or later there will be more people without jobs than with jobs, and if we don’t want the guillotines to come up (we are well on the way to that, since it becomes more and more mainstream to openly talk about stuff like that), it will be necessary to ensure a worthwhile life for the people who are not needed in classic jobs to create value, so they can create whatever they want without fear.
I just wanted to point out that I have a very different take on why UBI is worth considering.
the way it goes currently means sooner or later there will be more people without jobs than with jobs
I don’t think this is necessarily true. This type of FUD has come up with pretty much every major technological shift. This article goes over that, and here are some examples:
Industrial Age - Luddites vs Looms - worried weaving machines would kill jobs
Printing Press - ended scribes
Ford’s assembly lines - kill craftsmanship
In each case, the fears were largely unfounded, but they seemed very prescient at the time.
I don’t recommend UBI because I’m worried AI or some other technological advance will kill jobs, I recommend UBI because I think it empowers workers, encourages entrepreneurship, and simplifies social safety nets (less work to get the benefits you need).
if we don’t want the guillotines to come up (we are well on the way to that, since it becomes more and more mainstream to openly talk about stuff like that)
Is it though? I mostly see it on forums like this one that heavily tilt to young people on one end of the political spectrum. I think it has more to do with influencers and echo chambers than an actual shift in public perception. By all metrics, the average person is doing better today than at any other time in history (real (inflation adjusted) median personal income is at an all time high). The problem, IMO, is perception. People think they’re worse off because of social media (people only post the highlights), influencers (survivorship bias), and comparing themselves to their parents (further along in their career).
The one area that’s troubling is average age of first-time home-owners, which has become about 40 (source):
I think the critical factor here isn’t necessarily home prices, but personal savings rates declining. People just aren’t saving as much any more, meaning they’re spending a greater share of their income, so it’ll take longer to make a down payment on a home. And with inflation-adjusted household incomes steadily increasing over time, I think the simple answer is that people are spending more of their money on short-term wants.
I don’t think guillotines will fix this issue, people need a better relationship w/ social media (which for many people, will be no relationship at all) and a greater focus on planning for the future. It all starts with building good habits while young, as in, when your income is so small that your savings doesn’t really matter in the long term.
I get it, life is hard and people want easy solutions. But most of the time, there are no easy solutions, and any solution proposed as easy is an outright lie. Instead of focusing on society-level “solutions,” instead focus on how to improve your own life as it is. That’s largely what therapists offer, they don’t wave a magic wand and make your problems disappear, they reframe your problems into things you can manage, and that is empowering.
And with inflation-adjusted household incomes steadily increasing over time, I think the simple answer is that people are spending more of their money on short-term wants.
Do you have a source to back that up? My impression is that wealth and income are becoming more and more unequal, I find it hard to believe that the issue is actually that people are “buying too much avocado toast”.
AFAIK part of the issue is that there’s a tendency of banks to not give out loans even if the would-be homebuyers are already spending more on rent than the hypothetical loan payments, which wasn’t as true in past ecades. Since renting is more expensive than buying a home in the long run, even just this creates a clear increase in cost of living.
My impression is that wealth and income are becoming more and more unequal
Both are true, people are making more and the gap between the rich and the poor is widening. So everyone is getting richer, with the rich are getting richer faster.
Ithink it’s keeping up with the Joneses. The sources I have listed above show the following:
income is increasing
personal savings is going down
Assuming inflation statistics are accurate, that means people are spending on different things than they did in the past.
Basically, people are reducing savings instead of switching to cheaper products, reducing consumption, or delaying purchases. It’s not a huge change, but it’s a steady trend.
So I’m guessing people are seeing less value in savings than they did previously.
The studies I’ve looked at aren’t super granular, and the changes in housing and medical care don’t seem to tell the whole story.
Since renting is more expensive than buying a home in the long run
That’s true if you just look at dollar amounts, but if you include the opportunity cost of the down payment, if that money is invested in stocks, the rent vs buy math works out to be more of a wash. This obviously varies by area with some being very renter friendly and others being very homeowner friendly, but on average it’s pretty close.
Yeah, I’ve been there. Therapist says something like exercise and to take deep breaths.
While I’m getting yelled at by people for crap wages daily 😢
Had one guy just tell me to buy a book which essentially “You’re outlook is too negative”
You know what actually cured 80% of my depression? Getting a job that isn’t crap.
Turns out if you get paid well enough and are not in a hostile environment for 40 hours weekly your mental health greatly improves 🤷
Edit: which sucks because that’s not always possible. I definitely put in effort, but a good chunk was luck
This is something I think UBI could help with, at least a form that allows you to survive without working. Being able to quit without worrying how you’ll make rent is super empowering and is something therapy can’t provide.
This wouldn’t work for everyone, but I think there’s a good chance overall productivity would improve if people felt like that instead of terriified of losing a job. Maybe then people would stand up for problems they see instead of hiding it so it’s someone else’s problem.
You had a crap therapist too if i may say so. I’m sorry that happened and happy that you are in a better place now!
I worked in costumer service for many years and was yelled at a lot, just like you. You know what my therapist said?
He said (paraphrased): “I can’t understand how these people dare treat another human being like that. Your anger about what happened is completely justified. Lets work on what we can do to improve your situation.”
We talked a lot about how to distance yourself from the situation while it happens, to not be afraid to tell people to stop yelling if that doesn’t work, rationalizing fears related to job loss, healthy ways to express aggression to vent without hurting yourself. That’s what a therapist should do, not tell you to grow a thicker hide (that is what will kill you in the long run if you are so detached from your feelings that you get completely overwhelmed if that fails even once).
I agree with @sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works that in the long run UBI will be needed to help with that - the way it goes currently means sooner or later there will be more people without jobs than with jobs, and if we don’t want the guillotines to come up (we are well on the way to that, since it becomes more and more mainstream to openly talk about stuff like that), it will be necessary to ensure a worthwhile life for the people who are not needed in classic jobs to create value, so they can create whatever they want without fear.
Great post about mental health and therapy!
I just wanted to point out that I have a very different take on why UBI is worth considering.
I don’t think this is necessarily true. This type of FUD has come up with pretty much every major technological shift. This article goes over that, and here are some examples:
In each case, the fears were largely unfounded, but they seemed very prescient at the time.
I don’t recommend UBI because I’m worried AI or some other technological advance will kill jobs, I recommend UBI because I think it empowers workers, encourages entrepreneurship, and simplifies social safety nets (less work to get the benefits you need).
Is it though? I mostly see it on forums like this one that heavily tilt to young people on one end of the political spectrum. I think it has more to do with influencers and echo chambers than an actual shift in public perception. By all metrics, the average person is doing better today than at any other time in history (real (inflation adjusted) median personal income is at an all time high). The problem, IMO, is perception. People think they’re worse off because of social media (people only post the highlights), influencers (survivorship bias), and comparing themselves to their parents (further along in their career).
The one area that’s troubling is average age of first-time home-owners, which has become about 40 (source):
I think the critical factor here isn’t necessarily home prices, but personal savings rates declining. People just aren’t saving as much any more, meaning they’re spending a greater share of their income, so it’ll take longer to make a down payment on a home. And with inflation-adjusted household incomes steadily increasing over time, I think the simple answer is that people are spending more of their money on short-term wants.
I don’t think guillotines will fix this issue, people need a better relationship w/ social media (which for many people, will be no relationship at all) and a greater focus on planning for the future. It all starts with building good habits while young, as in, when your income is so small that your savings doesn’t really matter in the long term.
I get it, life is hard and people want easy solutions. But most of the time, there are no easy solutions, and any solution proposed as easy is an outright lie. Instead of focusing on society-level “solutions,” instead focus on how to improve your own life as it is. That’s largely what therapists offer, they don’t wave a magic wand and make your problems disappear, they reframe your problems into things you can manage, and that is empowering.
Do you have a source to back that up? My impression is that wealth and income are becoming more and more unequal, I find it hard to believe that the issue is actually that people are “buying too much avocado toast”.
AFAIK part of the issue is that there’s a tendency of banks to not give out loans even if the would-be homebuyers are already spending more on rent than the hypothetical loan payments, which wasn’t as true in past ecades. Since renting is more expensive than buying a home in the long run, even just this creates a clear increase in cost of living.
Both are true, people are making more and the gap between the rich and the poor is widening. So everyone is getting richer, with the rich are getting richer faster.
Ithink it’s keeping up with the Joneses. The sources I have listed above show the following:
Assuming inflation statistics are accurate, that means people are spending on different things than they did in the past.
Here’s an interesting source, and a table from that page:
Basically, people are reducing savings instead of switching to cheaper products, reducing consumption, or delaying purchases. It’s not a huge change, but it’s a steady trend.
So I’m guessing people are seeing less value in savings than they did previously.
The studies I’ve looked at aren’t super granular, and the changes in housing and medical care don’t seem to tell the whole story.
That’s true if you just look at dollar amounts, but if you include the opportunity cost of the down payment, if that money is invested in stocks, the rent vs buy math works out to be more of a wash. This obviously varies by area with some being very renter friendly and others being very homeowner friendly, but on average it’s pretty close.