With SSD, memory prices, and GPU prices still going up, releasing console-beating Steam Machines still seems way over the horizon to plan for. Once the AI bubble “pops”, maybe … but with so much going on in the world in terms of geopolitics also threatening to affect markets, I wouldn’t dare to look into the future.
They’re coming, they’ll just be third party and expensive.
Might as well just build your own mini-ITX PC and install SteamOS if it gets to that point
The GabeCube is a lot smaller than mini-ITX, though. Might even be smaller than the mainboard alone.
Relevant part of the article.
Larian Studio’s Publishing Director Michael Douse took to Twitter to argue Valve aren’t looking to make a device that exceeds the power of the consoles, they’re making a baseline. “They’re probably betting on the fact that anyone who wants more demanding PC hardware on their TV is part of the audience who know how to turn any PC into a Steam Machine,” Douse argues.
[…] Douse says, Valve are setting a baseline. “If Valve can once again normalise and thus create that entry point there is potential for big growth in that new market”. Once Gabe and his kin establish a baseline, other companies, such as ASUS and Lenovo, can roll in with their more powerful machines.
I think he’s absolutely right, and I hope Valve has considered this (and they probably have). This needs to be a door-opener, not a powerhouse.
Most definitely.
Valve’s main success here will be establishing SteamOS as a de facto replacement for some 60-70% of PCs. Hell, I’ve built a gaming PC a little over a year ago, and am still running Windows on it, but only for one reason: no first party support from SteamOS.
Once that’s sorted… My need for Windows will disappear basically, aside from the very occasional ancient Windows utility I might need to use (old Rockchip flashing tools come to mind), but those usually run quite well enough in a VM.
Make a baseline Steam Machine, let people adapt their PCs to it easily, and you won over the gaming market. Expand that with support for third party launcher integration and you’ve literally got every single fanboy, gamer, etc., on your platform.
am still running Windows on it, but only for one reason: no first party support from SteamOS.
For the most part, it SteamOS isn’t really necessary to get a serviceable desktop gaming experience. Pick a well-supported rolling release distro or a derivative, install Steam and Proton, and games mostly just work.
It’s not perfect, but it’s usable. The only real pain point around gaming is getting HDR working properly.
Closed-source software is a different story, however. Discord’s Wayland support is basically nonexistent and the AFK detection thinks you’re always in front of the computer, suppressing mobile notifications.
Actually, you can get most of Valve’s work without SteamOS. I’m running Mint and it works great.
Actually, that’s not what I want or need.
First party support here needs to include system drivers (including GPU) from primary sources (aka no “just add this repo and install this DKMS and run that installer”, it should work OOTB for the most common hardware).
Bazzite did that for me. Installing and getting a game up and running took me 20 minutes. No fuzz. All drivers and software self update.
That’s what has happened to me. I haven’t installed a single driver yet, in about a year.
But I dunno. Maybe I just won the lottery.
I’ll give it a go sometimes, but the AMD CPU + Nvidia GPU combo wasn’t exactly winner the last time I tried.
Yeah, that might not work as well. I’m on a Framework laptop that hasn’t been modified much.
Of course they have considered it. It is literally their model for handheld form factor gaming laptops (aka “Steam Deck”). And it is what they tried with round 1 of Steam Machines.
The real problem is going to be… all the problems that those of us with a Linux HTPC have. Streaming of media won’t be a thing since most services have DRM that relies on HDCP handshakes these days. Also people are going to learn the fun way why that AMD setup only supports “HDMI 2.0” (although there are workarounds to get most 2.1 functionality out of a display port adapter). Let alone just general weirdness that tends to not come up when everything is one integrated device.
Consoles have gone a LONG way towards ruining “it just works”. But I spent an hour or so yesterday finally flashing my display port dongle and it involved a second device to SSH into my HTPC and, in the process, I ended up needing to re-pair my xbox controller afterwards. I am used to that kind of bullshit and think it is fun. The first time that happens to someone you can expect all of social media to start caring that GabeN is a weird rich lunatic and insisting that Kojima-san and Sony will fix everything with the PS6 or whatever bullshit.
Streaming of media won’t be a thing since most services have DRM that relies on HDCP handshakes these days.
Can you elaborate? I can listen to streamed music from streaming apps, I watch streamed videos via YouTube or other platforms like dropout or beacon, and I host a jellyfin server in a debian box which I then watch in my endeavour desktop no problem. I also stream sometimes via discord or twitch to me friends.
Which “Streaming media” am I missing?
Basically all the services more oriented at TV/movies (Amazon, Max, probably the movies you can buy on Youtube, etc) all tend to either lock all content behind an HDCP handshake or higher resolution streams.
So you might be able to watch the latest Glenn Howerton movie on your linux HTPC but it will be a lower res stream with no HDR or surround sound. It is a very known problem that sheepishly comes up any time someone asks about how they can build their own nvidia shield or whatever.
Oh, well… I usually prefer to watch those with an eye covered if you catch my drift…
Either that or we use our androidTV TV to watch them in the proper app.
In all fairness, it IS a valid issue, yet more minor than how you presented it xD. But yeah, it sucks if you want to have a Linux home cinema instead of using the smart tv, agreed.
The PS3, in large part, sold because it was THE best blu ray player out there. At a time when games on the Sony were actively worse than any other platform (because the CBE was a mofo for third parties), the PS3 was heavily buoyed by it weirdly being one of the cheapest blu ray players out there. And the PS2 was a REALLY good DVD player which heavily contributed to its market dominance.
For people who already have an AVR and are used to doing all their own infrastructure, it matters less. For people who essentially plug one box into the one “good” port on their TV? When there is one 1k USD box that can only do games and one 1k USD box that does games and netflix and youtube and disney plus?
It might not be a huge deal in the long run (especially with TVs having a lot of this functionality built in) but it is a talking point with no good answers. And that impacts the idea of it being “an entry point”.
And, just to add on. Apps are INCREDIBLY important to the average person… and most power users. Just look at the various attempts to spin up a “free” phone whether it is Graphene or Linux Phones or whatever. People get started going through and might even figure out they can do 90% of what they actually do on the non-google solution. Then they realize they can’t log-in to their credit card’s app (which the companies more or less require you to auth with if you are calling them because they disabled your card before sending a new one…). And you can’t log into your kid’s daycare’s camera system. And you can’t watch AEW on the shitter. And so forth.
Which is why google is actively preventing sideloading and working with those apps to lock them into google play services. And you can bet the solution they come up with to continue to allow sideloading will further lock in the GP services side of things.
Except we’ve already seen that, despite the success of the Steam Deck, those companies aren’t interested. Of the seemingly hundred handheld devices, there’s only a single one sold with SteamOS, and the subsequent one excluded it as well. In fact, ASUS doubled down on Windows with their latest handheld.
Ive wanted to get into PC gaming for awhile but I just don’t have the room or the care to set something up its why I use consoles. Every time I mention this ill get a billion messages about ways to make it work. I’m a simple person I want to plug it in and turn it on which is why I use consoles. I dont play enough games to justify a full set up. I plan to plug my PS5 controller into this (I think its able?) And enjoy.
Unless you are going for console exclusives, a PC is upgradable and can be just about as plug and play, specially now with SteamOS. The SteamDeck has really helped normalized control schemes into their gamepad.
Whats a full setup in this context? A mouse and keyboard? You could always hook a pc up to a tv so thats not a factor… dont get me wrong if this is what it takes to get you to embrace pc gaming thats great, it just feels like before now if there were any barriers to it they largely existed only in your head. Hooking a pc up to a tv and using a $20 air remote from amazon and a ps4 controller(or even just the touchpad on the ps4 controller) to control the mouse was always possible.
It’s able ! However my experience on Linux tells me to warn you that having the PS4 controller work only requires plug and play, having the PS5 controller work requires a few (moderate) tweaks
What tweaks did you require? I just start ps5 controller and it works.
It was some time ago, maybe that’s not true anymore :)
I think the goal is providing an alternate path for people migrating from windows 10 as much as it is a living room pc.
Ehh
I feel like most people that really care about their operating system are more than likely going to build a PC
Most people buying a pre-built device are like Apple users “It just works”
I have an expensive PC I built but I’m a console gamer
I enjoy a comfy couch, big TV, and controller.
It’s the ease of just hitting a couple buttons and getting to play a game.
Could I hook my PC to my TV? Yes, but that would require me to move my PC from my desk.
Also things like controllers. If I hooked my PC to my TV to play something like Overwatch I’d have to play with m/kb people which I would be at a severe disadvantage if I played with a controller.
Like if Xbox overwatch allowed m/kb (yeah I know people cheat) I’d probably stop playing it.
It’s the PC gamers that always want consoles to support m/kb. Console gamers do not want to play on m/kb.
In my mind lack of m/kb is why consoles exist
People aren’t buying PS/Xbox for a living room PC. They want a console gaming experience
Most people locked out of upgrading from W10 to W11 have never built a computer and will never build a computer. They are liable to throw away their existing computer and purchase a new one. W10 is EOL and W11 has a restrictive list of prerequisites.
Does Overwatch not have crossplay?
Valve has amazing hardware engineering skills and I have no idea, why companies like ASUS struggle to compete. They struggled with the Steam Deck, they will struggle with the Steam Machine.
Because valve does not need to profit,since they get money from people buying games.
They don’t need to worry about shareholders demanding maximum profit. They are still going to be looking to profit but they can do things for purposes beyond just extracting as much as possible in the short term.
Sony is a shareholder corp and still does that.
Talk to me when it’s $250
Can you even buy a current gen console for that? Genuinely asking, I don’t own any console systems but thought they were in the $5-600 range now (excluding the Switch)?
They are and it’s a shame. But it’s ok, wait and buy used.
This isn’t as powerful as a PS5 or as portable as a Switch (and doesn’t have the benefits of a console). So it should be cheaper. Looking at the prices right now, PS5 with Fifa is 450 from MediaMarkt and Series S is 380. But the PS5 is already heavily criticised for being too expensive. I believe Series S can be 300 if you look around and wait for a sale.
This isn’t as powerful as a PS5
Source?
I haven’t yet seen actual full specs, do we have details on those or just general info?
Emudeck person is working on this
https://shop.playnix.io/products/playnix-console
RX 9060xt and Ryzen 5600
Don’t need it. At least it’s RDNA4. Good bump up in performance compared to the Steam Machine and still fairly compact
Id bet this will end up like the steam deck competitors. More powerful, but DOA because the price point is wrong and ultimately misses the reason why it’s a product in the first place.
Valve isn’t targeting the PC market with this. They are trying to persuade console users to make the switch.
Based on the limited specs we have, the steam machine is a more powerful PS5
deleted by creator
I‘d like to think that Asus and Lenovo would build „console-beating“ Steam Machines, but they‘ve also tried building more powerful Steam Deck alternatives and those were meh at best and terrible at worst.
Steam Machines are probably easier to design, as they‘re just PCs. But seeing how much thought and care Valve puts into their hardware designs and how little of both Lenovo and Asus have put into theirs in the past, I‘m not going to expect great products from them.
I’d be very happy to be wrong, though.
The reason why Valve has a chance whereas Asus and Lenovo do not is that the latter two have to make a profit off of the hardware, whereas Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony can sell at a loss/cost because they earn it back and more through game sales. Valve is in the same position so can price competitively against the big 3.
If other hardware vendors are going to follow, they have to be using SteamOS or something similar out of the box. Handhelds can somewhat get away with using Windows because of the touch screen, but a “console” experience that occasionally requires plugging in a keyboard and mouse to get past some controller-unfriendly menu or pop-up is just going to annoy users.
Any other Distribution and even Windows would work fine, as long as you set up passwordless autologon as a default user and then put Steam in Big Picture Mode as autostart.
Respectfully, I’m going to have to disagree about stock Windows working fine. There are multiple places where it necessitates having a keyboard and/or mouse connected.
- Interacting with UAC prompts and other elevated-permission windows that block synthetic input events.
- When a popup hijacks focus away from the game window.
- When Steam (or other controller to mouse software) is not open, such as during the logoff screen where you sometimes have to click “Close Anyways”.
- After a BIOS update, when the TPM refuses to unlock and you need to enter the BitLocker recovery key within the pre-boot environment.
You can disable UAC (thinking practical, not necessarily security minded - but for an auto login w/o password, what’s security?)
Popups: yes. But then you’d need to actively use other software besides steam. Why would you do that, if using only a controller? Also that can happen in Linux, too. If you mean those desktop notifications - those should be silenced automagically when running games.
For the logoff or shutdown: Set or create
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop\AutoEndTasksto1to auto kill hanging/not ending processes automagically. Also you can useWaitToKillAppTimeoutthere to define how long windows should wait before killing the processes (in milliseconds).And regarding bitlocker after a bios update: why would you use bitlocker on such a machine (auto login on boot which would allow access to all files anyways)? Anyways, set or create
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\BitLocker\PreventDeviceEncryptionto1to prevent bitlocker from running after an upgrade. With Pro, you could also leverage GPOs for that.At least for the new Steam Gamepad they announced trackpads to be able to control the mouse with the gamepad, so clicking away a popup or sich shouldn’t be a problem.
You can disable UAC (thinking practical, not necessarily security minded - but for an auto login w/o password, what’s security?)
It’s not just the UAC prompt. Any window created by an elevated process will block synthetic input events created by lower privilege processes.
Popups: yes. But then you’d need to actively use other software besides steam. Why would you do that, if using only a controller?
- Game launchers installed as part of the Steam game.
- Driver software automatically installed by Windows.
- Windows itself, sometimes.
Also that can happen in Linux, too.
It depends on your DE and configuration. In KDE with Wayland, you can set it up to strictly enforce focus stealing prevention. The way that works is essentially by only allowing another program to steal focus if it’s the result of some user interaction.
For the logoff or shutdown: Set or create
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop\AutoEndTasksto1to auto kill hanging/not ending processes automagically. Also you can useWaitToKillAppTimeoutthere to define how long windows should wait before killing the processes (in milliseconds).The fact that these are buried in the registry… thanks, though. These will be useful. I concede this point.
And regarding bitlocker after a bios update: why would you use bitlocker on such a machine (auto login on boot which would allow access to all files anyways)?
Because it’s the default that is forced onto the user.
Anyways, set or create
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\BitLocker\PreventDeviceEncryptionto1to prevent bitlocker from running after an upgrade. With Pro, you could also leverage GPOs for that.Call me cynical, but I don’t think this will work forever. Microsoft has been boiling the frog with local accounts over Windows 11’s entire lifetime, at first allowing them, then hiding them, then making the bypass command only work under specific circumstances, etc.
All it takes to destroy the UX is force-enabling BitLocker exactly once, and most of the people using the device won’t know how to undo it (or worse, be locked out without the recovery key)
If this thing is $499, I will buy it, as I’ve wanted to get into PC gaming for a while and I will probably spend more in games. If it is more than $499, I will buy a used PS5 and continue to think about building a cool gaming PC and getting into PC gaming.
The steam deck is likely the target machine at that price.
I think $700-$800 is a more realistic range unfortunately. It depends on how thin margins Valve is willing to accept, but I don’t think they want to sell at a loss like the typical console manufacturer.
I don’t know why they wouldn’t consider selling at a loss if it means bringing a massive user base over to their gaming ecosystem where they take a 30% cut of game sales. 700-800 is probably a good price point for what you get. I’m just not a big enough gamer to justify dropping that kind of money on a setup to try out PC gaming.
You have to consider that this is a pc and can be mass purchased by industries other than gaming.
Who else is buying a PC designed for gaming for non gaming stuff? What other industry is this an optimal build and design for? The last steam machine didn’t sell outside of its intended audience. Why would this one?
Because the steam deck wasn’t a loss leader either? It is still a pc that could be used for anything. What makes it optimised for gaming after removing SteamOS? Maybe cec and what else? Pc can be used as a workstation anywhere.
The form factor kinda does that by having a controller attached, limiting power consumption to 15W, and limiting connectivity to a single USB port
Console manufacturers sell at a loss because they have to sell the hardware first before they can sell anything else. They know they’ll get that money back on software you couldn’t have bought without the console.
While I’m sure Valve hopes to bring some new customers to Steam this way, I’ll bet that the majority of Steam Machines sold will be to users who are already invested in Steam and have an existing library of games to play. If they take a loss on hardware, they can’t be certain they’re actually making up for it elsewhere.
It’s not practical for the Machine to be a loss leader because it’s a supplementary product, not one the rest of their business is dependent on.
They used the same strategy for the steam deck. Valve acknowledged that it was sold at a loss or near loss and it was incredibly successful because it broke into the handheld market. Don’t know why they wouldn’t do the same for this console like system. I’m hoping they do.
Do you have a source for that? All I can find are conflicting rumors and speculation.
The only actual quote here is
Price point was secondary and painful. But that was pretty clearly a critical aspect to it.
But Newell didn’t actually say it was at a loss, did he? Seems like they’re just speculating.
Probably slightly more than that, but it’s worth considering the long-term costs. Steam does not have a monthly subscription (minimum $160/yr with PS), they often have massive price cuts in their seasonal sales, and even many games can be had completely for free. Epic gives them away every week. GOG gives them away on occasion. And if you’re an Amazon Prime subscriber, that includes several games a week as well.
Also, I will never purchase a gaming console for my kids to get addicted to it. Get the kids an “IPad”? I learned my lesson. Horrified by the results. Good luck out there! Don’t complaint if you don’t get into that graduate program that your parents dreamed of for you. Also can’t get a girl pregnant if you don’t know what that other joystick is for, so maybe this is not too bad. I’m conflicted by no, no “entry point” into my house or my pocket thanks.
I’m waiting for the price then checking the specs of the nearest comparable mini pc. I’ll lean valve over beelink/minisforim and then over everyone else. But I think that’s the closest comparison.
