- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
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That CANNOT be a real picture of them all group reading the script for the first time…
It is real. The footage in full context speaks volumes about how they all felt. They were still being professional about it, but I think it was hard to keep a straight face.
There is actual video of the full cast reading the script, specifically the ‘final interaction’ between John Snow and Daenerys. It looks real to me.
I was a diehard fan of the show and the books. Mostly the books. The show, I stopped loving after the midway point of season 4 when it dawned on me that these fucks had no idea what they were doing and worse yet: they didn’t actually care.
That the only reason the show had been this good up until now was because they had more or less translated the book into script directly and George had also been with them in the writers room right up until their “creative differences” in season 4.
I originally stopped watching after suffering through season 5 and only went back because my friends begged me to watch it with them and I was the ASOIAF expert in the group. When Arya killed the Night King I quietly turned it off and never finished it.
I think it hit me so hard because had I spent almost a decade being a super dedicated fan who would spend a lot of my free time deep diving into analyses and studying the worldbuilding, listening to interviews and talks with George, listening to fan podcasts that did deep dives, reading and re-reading the books while taking my own notes and making my own theories. It had really helped me through a very very dark period in my life where I felt lost and like I didn’t have a purpose at all. It might sound a bit dumb, but yeah. It was one of many little things in my life that helped me hold on to it and not just peace out, you know.
And to realize that Dumb and Dumber didn’t actually care and that they rushed the shit out of the show and pooped out season 8 because they wanted to move on to star wars (lol how did that go for them?) that was just so painful. Not just for myself, but for George too. The cast and crew who dedicated so much blood sweat and tears to this franchise and for the fans like me who loved this world so much and got inspired to write and build worlds ourselves while escaping from things in our real lives that hurt.
And it just got farted out like that when there was no reason for it.
I am not kidding when I say that up until recently when Trump announced for a second time that he wants to annex Greenland from my country, the way Dumb and Dumber treated GoT was the angriest I had ever been. Goofy as it sounds. .
It literally killed my interest in reading books and watching movies and TV shows. It took me three years to start watching movies again regularly and I am generally known among friends and colleagues as the movie buff. I’m the one you ask for movie recommendations. GoT killed my interest in movies for three years. It’s better nowadays, but I still don’t watch TV shows and I rarely read. If I do I try to stay away from series. Only exception was Earthsea recently. But yeah.
The last time I dove into the ASOIAF world was when George released Fire and Blood. I haven’t touched it since and I will probably never rewatch the show nor re-read the books. It’s just such a bitter feeling everytime I see anything from that franchise now.
Without having any of the background you have, I also couldn’t finish season five, it just felt off. The spark was gone, and I wasn’t hooked anymore.
What happened in season 5 was an emperor has not clothes moment. The “writers” revealed themselves to be completely incompetent and having the minds of 14 year old boys. There were already indications of that in earlier seasons, but it wasn’t as off putting because the writing was so good.
But from season 5 and onwards, they just went full fuckboy and the quality of the writing decreased because they aren’t witty, they aren’t talented, they don’t care about the politics and they don’t understand what they are doing without George holding their hands.
Plus, their original motivation to get the rights to turn the books into a show was to do the Red Wedding. That was their goal. It is so clear that after they got to do the Red Wedding, they lost interest in the story immediately and when George left, their writing skills were put to the first real test since the beginning. And they of course failed spectacularly.
Fun fact: They were in fact so bad at writing that the original pilot almost got the show prematurely canceled but somehow they got a second chance to make a new pilot with new actors and the rest is history.
So as someone who has never read, nor any intention to read the books, it isn’t worthwhile?
The books aren’t finished, with no indication of when it will be, when the next book will be or even if it will be finished before Martin dies so take note of that before you start.
In saying that, the books are way better than the HBO series. And are worth the read IMO.
This, as someone who had read the books before the HBO series was a thing
Thank you.
I feel your pain. Truly.
George and Pat Rothfuss changed my reading habits, now I’m not picking up series unless they’re done. Plenty of great works out there, like The Last Kingdom or the Aubrey/Maturin series. Ditto for TV series, especially Netflix produced ones. Too many get the chop on a dip of viewership these days.
I half suspect George lost his will to write after seeing how dnd massacred the last 3 seasons. Who wouldn’t? Especially if they were mangling his book notes. Now he’s treating this series as a chore, and he’d rather do anything else.
Personally, I fully believe that the way the show ended played a huge role in George not finishing the books.
George is a perfectionist and I remember how he once mentioned that he stopped following fan forums years before the show was even a thing because when he saw fan theories guessing correctly the plot twists he had been working on, he started second guessing himself and felt the urge to change them. Instead of doing that, he stuck with the plots he had thought out and cut himself off from the fan forums, as I said.
I also know that George entrusted Dumb and Dumber with the biggest plot twists and they carelessly butchered almost all of them in the show.
While things were still good, George would regularly upload sample chapters for Winds of Winter onto his blog and I read all of them. I used to think that the idiot showrunners would take the show in a different direction and leave it up to George to finish his vision on his own because it was clear he wouldn’t finish the books before the show caught up to them.
Many fans agreed and expected that the showrunners would go in their own direction because they had made several choices along the way that entirely closed off important plotpoints and back then we all thought that they were capable writers.
Turns out the changes were more stuff like "we can’t include Tysha because Tyrion is popular and we don’t want him to go on his villain arc because hes a fan favourite. Stuff like that.
And for me, it became very clear that they were following George’s plot when the sample chapters from Winds of Winter appeared in the show in the most mangled manner.
I believe that the way the show ended was a horror fun house mirror of the true ending that George had planned for decades. They fucked it because they are retarded and lazy. I cannot imagine anything more heartbreaking as a writer with the perfectionism and self doubt that George has to see my big ending with Dany going mad, Jaime and Cersei dying in each other’s arms and Bran becoming the king of the north being done so terribly and being recieved with so much hatred from the fans.
Although I fully believe that Arya killing the night king was Dumb and Dumber following the girl boss trend and not what George had planned for her nor Jon’s characters.
I genuinely think it broke him. The fact that he already struggles with finishing his works because of his perfectionism was bad enough, but to realize that you handed over the pay offs of your decades long magnum opus to two retards… ooff.
I’m still trying to get back into reading. Recently I have mostly stuck with autobiographies of local people in my country. Reading about dirt poor farmers in the 30s and 40a and stuff like that is pretty sick. Makes you both appreciate the comforts you have in the 21st century and mourn the lost connection with nature and the seasons. Anyways, biographies are kinda my catnip these days. For some reasons, and despite loving fiction, I still just can’t find it in me to bother to get invested in someone else’s worldbuilding xD again, Earthsea being the only exception.
Also sorry for my bad English. I’m usually better at writing, but I’m in stupid mode today. 🫠
As someone that just read the books:
Arya killing the night king isn’t just thematically and plot appropriate with like five different chekovs guns shooting his face at once, it’s just cool to have all this magic bullshit fixed with a blade in the dark imo.
The problem is that scene was ugly and poorly filmed with shit tier effects. Plus she basically just yolos at the guy… Have her use her goddamn assassin powers, how hard is that?
I just don’t believe that is what she’s destined for at all. I think her plot has way more to do with stealth assassinations of people who are untouchable in Westoros. The whole winter is coming part is Jon’s plot.
I do believe that Arya’s story is all about how dedicating your life to revenge makes you a lonely, empty person and Jon says something to her in the first book way before everything happens that j believe was foreshadowing. Can’t remember the exact quote, but they talk about how much she hates sowing and Jon jokes that she will be found frozen dead in spring with a needle in her hand.
It is also important to remember that the night king in the show is not the same as the Night’s King in the books and that he’s not just some dumb villain who needs to be killed. There is so much more to him and he is also a Stark.
I am curious, though, on your perspective and why you believe Arya will kill the Night’s King in the books.
You don’t train someone as an assassin and specifically give them a sword made of the metal that kills Night Kings if you don’t plan on them killing a Night King, first off. It’s also the exact kind of reversal of expectations for conflict resolving that Martin loves and, on the topic, I think the reason we’re never getting his ending is because it’s clear that this was his ending and people hated it.
As for her character arc and revenge, that’s the thing, it’s not revenge, it’s her duty as a Stark. By your own reasoning using her new skills in this way instead of going after the Lannisters or whoever is the inevitable conclusion.
Also, being what he is, I fully expect the leader of the Others in the book to get called a Night King/Night’s King if by some miracle he does actually publish the rest of the series. Yeah there’s all that stuff about that being a historical figure but it’s also the kind of name that becomes a title in its own right.
But, all that said, at this point only Martin really knows what his intentions are and were.
Forgive me, because it has been awhile, but I have zero recollection of Arya owning a blade made from dragon glass. What sword are you referring to?
I still hold on to the belief that Arya’s fate is to assassinate differnet people in high places around Westoros, but not necessarily her main targets.
Of course the leader is the Night’s King. K just don’t believe he will behave the way he did in the show. The White walkers looked nothing like what they do in the show. They are more like undead ice elves in the books, who speak and show impressive intelligence. The Night’s King will be there, he’s just not the same as in the show.
And I do not believe Arya will be the one to kill him.
I still think it would have been a better ending if the white walkers killed everyone and took over. Just stepping over bodies of favorite characters as they get seated on the iron throne.
Like the red wedding or the end of season 1…
That would have been a shit ending. But you are right, it would have been much better than we got.
I think it could have been done well if you had the conflict from Danerys and Cersei basically leave humanity open to the whitewalkers invasion. Essentially set up the fall of man due to a power struggle.
Would have worked a bit with the overall narrative that the game of thrones doesn’t matter if there is nothing left to claim at the end.
I would have preferred that. The shit behind the wall was the boogeyman the entire time and we got what? A bullshit pitch black raid on winter fell?
A gigantic army of ice undead that all…just crumbles with the poke of one needle. Her killing the ice king, sure, but at least let us see the white army come across the wall and Winter actually Comes. The whole army disintegrating was massively underwhelming.
The massive narrative cluster fuck for multiple seasons was underwhelming.
Oh for sure but at that point you’re pot committed…Battle of the Bastards was about the best fight scene we got
Sigh. I was committed.
It was complete bullshit
I skipped it. I’ve even rewatched the other season, I simply refuse to watch the last.
Everything past the 4th season is pretty shit. The 7th was just as bad as the eight one.
Don’t wanna form your own opinion?
When everyone tells you this turd is not a crabcake, you are not obligated to take a bite for yourself.
Someone doesn’t have to jump off a cliff to personally experience how jumping off a cliff isn’t good for your health.
Don’t want to waste my time for disappointment
I’ve never watched GOT and it sounds like I shouldn’t bother
Back when it first aired it was amazing, people went wild for it, and with reason: it’s really that good. For the first 5 seasons. Season 6&7 become mixed bags because the writers tan out of original source materials and they sucked at writing themselves, and at season 8 theyr recieved a mouthwatering contract for star wars and just wanted to get rid of GoT, even though HBO wanted multiple seasons more.
So, they just write and produces a 6 episode piece of shit that was scandalously bad. Production was bad, writing was just amazingly bad.
Watch the first seven seasons, they’re worth it!
at season 8 theyr recieved a mouthwatering contract for star wars and just wanted to get rid of GoT,
If they worked on a star wars movie I’m not convinced season 8 suffered from them “rushing it” or putting anything less than every last drop of their souls into the writing.
The rest of the comment is dead on.
If they worked on a star wars movie
They did not.
S8 was such a complete pile of shit that they lost the deal.
I guess yeah the only reason i felt like season 8 was a better production than Disney star wars was because of the previous 6-7 seasons building such a firm foundation. That’s a beautiful insult to them that their writing was seen as worse than the gold standard of slop at the time.
It’s absolutely worth watching - still the best TV I ever watched. The problem is that the book Author is an absolutely amazing writer, and the show runners were not good writers, so when the show surpassed the books, it was obvious (this is essentially the last two seasons). The show runners also rushed the ending because they were told Disney had a Star wars trilogy waiting for them. GoT easily could have been another 3 seasons to have a proper ending
Watch it all, it’s still a fantastic watch in my humble opinion.
You could watch it if you stop before the end, maybe through season 6, definitely before 8.
I still recommend the books though, which are still good despite the fact that we will never see the end written by the original author.
The last book was pretty bad, didn’t include any of the main characters. Such a shame, it started so well.
So you mean A Dance With Dragons? I’d recommend doing the last two books mixed together so you get A Feast For Crows at the same time. Here is a link to one reading order by chapter: https://boiledleather.tumblr.com/post/25902554148/a-new-readerfriendly-combined-reading-order-for-a
That’s interesting .
I had heard that it was twice as long, then they discovered some paradox or plot hole, so he yanked out half the book for re-writes, and published the rest. Still waiting on those re-writes.
I didn’t know it was for plot hole reasons, though I wouldn’t be surprised. I thought it was just because the length was spiraling and he needed to publish the half that was done at the time.
Hey, don’t listen to me, I don’t know anything. That’s just an old memory, and I have no source to support it.
The story makes sense though. The secondary characters don’t have such complex story arcs, but you have to be careful with the mains, especially when they are all over the map, killing and getting killed. Hard to keep track of them all.
I don’t know the situation now, but he had a couple of assistants to help him keep track of everything, but they went off to write the Expanse series, and I don’t think they are with him anymore. Again, too lazy to look for a source, so take it with a grain of salt.
So I think he’s painted into a corner, and doesn’t remember enough about his own world to keep from falling down a plot well.
Eh, the White Walker thing was always dumb anyhow.
Isn’t that a truer reflection of a true to life story? There are no “endings”, life goes on
Well, in that case, if “life goes on”, then new books should keep coming and coming…
I could never get into it. Felt to much like LOTR combined with softcore pron. I have had regrets over time, and even tried the first but again, but it just didn’t gel with me
When the final dropped I was relieved, I wouldn’t have to catch up ever again.
Script was garbage but that did not happen.
It’s deceptively worded, because it kinda happened (at least according to Clarke).
From https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/19/game-thrones-finale-interview-emilia-clarke/
“What, what, what, WHAT!?” the actress recalls thinking. “Because it comes out of f—king nowhere. I’m flabbergasted. Absolutely never saw that coming.”
“I cried,” Clarke says. “And I went for a walk. I walked out of the house and took my keys and phone and walked back with blisters on my feet. I didn’t come back for five hours. I’m like, ‘How am I going to do this?’”
She never says she dislikes the script and makes it clear that she found the story surprising and emotional. Which is true, the story is surprising (not in a good way, but it is surprising) and for her character it is full of emotion.
Much better.
Then I guess it’s a good thing they didn’t bother to produce more episodes past season 5.
There was a season 5? Don’t remember it
“You think you want a good girl, but you need a bad pussy” or whatever the fuck that line was.
I remember gagging.
IIRC correctly, they were so checked out, working on potential future projects (that were also fucking terrible), that they had most of the work passed off to others?
Honestly though, I blame the author. GOT was great until they ran out of source material. Then you saw how terrible D&D really are at this. MF still hasn’t finished the series. If you can’t finish it, then don’t fucking start it.
Maybe Sanderson can pick up the mantle for this one too.
Not to disagree on the topic but “if you can’t finnish it, don’t start it” is absolutely horrible advice when its about a creative art like writing.
If i am not wrong there is a whole writing style about just starting without knowing yourself where its going to end.
I highly dislike capitalism but i can see that once you have enough material to sell some of it, even if incomplete as a series. Many people would take the opportunity. I don’t know the authors economic background but for a starving artist with high potential that first book sales could be the push required to finish a series.
I blame capitalism, both for putting artists in this position and for the disrespect of big media towards their own content quality. Its always the money must flow, at every cost!
Even without capitalism I prefer having been able to read the existing books without an ending over not being able to read any of them. I can get some enjoyment from the journey even without a destination
Look at it this way.
He was clearly starting to stall in his later books, taking so long to get them out, and instead of starting to wrap up the storyline, he started introducing new elements.
I understand why he hasn’t moved forward, but I’ve lost all interest in ever picking up another book of his. The terrible writing by D&D certainly didn’t help.
My feelings of frustration are valid and my criticism is not unfounded.
I do appreciate your thoughtful response, thank you
If you have a problem with unfinished works, don’t ingest them until they’re finished. The artist doesn’t owe you anything.
I didn’t say anything remotely close to saying artists owed me anything. Dude bit off more than he can chew.
I have a right to be frustrated when I’m invested in a story and it just stops.
Similarly he had a right to not finish the book- what you don’t have is a right to tell other people what to do.
If you can’t finish it, then don’t fucking start it.
This is neither a simple expression of frustration nor is it a criticism.
It is a command.
Hence why you’re being called entitled.
You need to let it go, or get over whatever this weird outrage this is that you are having.
I can feel however I want, you don’t get to gatekeep that.
I didn’t tell George RR Martin to do anything. I said a line on a social media forum.
You are choosing to take my words in the way you are describing and not in the way I intended. That is a form of manipulation and gas lighting. Especially after I clarified.
Who called me entitled? I guess I missed that. That’s a weird take, whoever said it.
You need to let it go, or get over whatever this weird outrage this is that you are having.
You don’t have a right to command me, either. Lol.
Thats why im still waiting for one piece to finish so i cant pick it up again. Sigh
Be sure to tell your grandkids it has real potential and they should check it out once the series is complete.
That’s a wild take on writing lmao. If you’re not sure the author will finish it, don’t start reading it.
I think they meant don’t start adapting an unfinished property. A certain transphobic author had issues because the studios really needed her to finish books 5, 6, and 7, so they could hit their schedule of 1 movie per year for 8 years.
Edit: based on replies from the original commenter it seems that your interpretation was correct.
You could at least come up with a response that already hasn’t been said several times.
I mean, to be clear, it was HBO’s show, yeah? Those writers worked for HBO, not the other way around?
They were fucking it up well before they ran out of source material. See: the confected drama of bran and Jon almost meeting North of the wall
Sanderson would be god awful at completing it and has specifically said he wouldn’t.
Thank the gods, Sanderson’s writing is trash.
I vote Joe Abercrombie, their style is more similar imo and given direction from GRRM’s notes I think he could finish it much better than the show did.
Sanderson is a bad pick and has said himself that he can’t do grimdark. Just because he’s prolific doesn’t mean he should be the de facto pick to finish series.
Man the Sanderson hate in this post is real.
I only suggested him because he helped finish the Wheel of Time series.
Don’t hate him, he’s one of my favorite authors. He was approached to finish WoT because he was a good fit. He is not a good fit for ASoIaF
I do not understand why fools rush these things and ruin good things. You’re holding a gold mine and put it through a paper shredder for what?
They were bored and thought they would just take a piss all over it to get to their lucrative star wars deal.
…HBO was? Weren’t they, like, the bosses?
HBO gave Dumb and Dumber an unlimited budget and unlimited seasons because the show was the biggest success they had ever had and Dumb and Dumber were like: nah, let’s finish this shit and move on to star wars.
As a result of this action, star wars dropped Dumb and Dumber from their deal and their careers were destroyed. I have seen their names pop up in writing credits on a few projects since GoT ended, but it’s never something that is mentioned or used to promote the movie or show they are working on. Hollywood knows to keep these losers’ names out of the spotlight.
I cannot imagine the entitlement of these two, to have pretty much won the Hollywood game to the point that they had unlimited budget, unlimited seasons and episodes to continue making the most popular tv show in the world and they thought they were too good for it.
And everytime I heard people blame George for them running out of material I remind them that these two fucks skipped and ENTIRE BOOK in the ASOIAF series because they thought it was boring.
The show runners.
We live in the age of everything behind a subscription, the people without talent will always try to take a good thing and burn it for a buck. Trying to understand them is like trying to understand why people voted for a man in a diaper, trice.
Because they wanted to work on Star Wars, but this was such a flop Disney pulled the deal
At the time rumor was that the Benioff and Weiss were already working on their next show (3-body problem?), and just wanted to get GoT out of the way.
IIRC they were tied to something Star Wars related, which they subsequently lost. It was the tiniest consolation for GoT fans as it did nothing to un-ruin the show.
I remember hearing that too. There was a rumor from the production staff that almost all the producers were talking about on set was their next project.
Yeah can’t believe Martin is rushing out his books like that!
I don’t know how actors contracts etc. work, so I am genuinely curious. Is refusing not an option for them? Surely most of these actors already have enough money…
It would be like walking out during a billion $ project that depends on you as a freelancer.
In a VERY small industry where everyone knows everyone, and there are thousands of applicants literally willing to suck dick to get hired.It would also have penalties for breaking the contract which could be very high, plus if you tank a major production without good reason your career is probably over
Although here’s hoping Nick Frost does the right thing.
Are you referring to him playing Hagrid?
Correct.
He’s already signed onto the role fully knowing who JK is. I don’t think he’s going to suddenly come around.
Can you elaborate?
They’d get sued most likely
Watched it last year, I quite liked the ending. I did feel some “let’s get this over with” energy, but the ending fit the characters and I can’t say there was anything to break my suspension of disbelief.
I really disliked Daenerys from the start (so I’m biased here) and her “madness” just ramped up rather than came out of nowhere for me.
They did botch Aryas storyline somewhat, which was disappointing, but it didn’t ruin my experience.
Coming into this show all I knew was characters die and everyone hated the ending. When I finished it I didn’t understand what people disliked so much. Yes it was rushed, but I can’t say it was bad. The show had to end and without the source material rather sooner than later. My opinion might’ve been different if I watched the show as it aired (there could’ve been more investment in the story from my side).
And here’s me: I haven’t even seen series 1-7! I saw a bit of one episode but changed channels when I saw one of the props was poorly made out of Styropor:-(
I saw up to season 3, maybe 4. I stopped because nothing happened.
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Dragon lady was still in desert towns.
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The wall was still snowy with no sign of zombies.
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Someone tried to take over a town but failed, so nothing changed.
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Lots of people got murdered at a wedding without any effect on the plot.
The small girl training to be an assassin was interesting, but done better in Hanna or Leon.
This is an insane take. Literally so much happens in the first three seasons. Maybe it happens at a more realistic pace than most stories unfold, but that is one of the great things about the series and one of the main things the creators fucked up in the latter half, so maybe you should give it a shot.
I saw about 20 hours of very watchable TV. I did enjoy it. But in terms of progress towards something it just felt, empty. Mysteries that were set up had not yet paid off, and I felt no closer to any answer.
I’ve been burned before with Lost and Heroes. I decided to wait until it had concluded before picking it up again.
Fair enough lol
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Who cares. Get over it.
No way, someone should be doing a documentary on this. The failure was too epic to forget.
Agreed. Imagine having arguably the biggest piece of media going, with endless potential for merchandise, spinoffs etc. and deciding to just rush through the end, ruin any lasting legacy, and cost yourself future work. And for what? The hope of moving onto the next project sooner? The next project that you were then let go from due to the colossal failure of your last project. It’s fascinating in a way.
It’s absolutely amazing how such a massive show with a huge fanbase completely tapped into the story managed to fuck it up so hard that literally everyone stopped talking about it immediately after the finale. It takes garbage writing of epic proportions to make every single one of your viewers wish they’d never seen your show.
I’d seen shows blow their stories before but never one with the amount of money and talent this one had.
The correct take
