You must log in or register to comment.
Now I’m wondering what Berkeley’s gonna do.
Can’t wait temple OS to implement the requirement
I’m all for banning kids from things like social media, but the enforcement should be at the account creation stage or after reports are made, and should never collect IDs. The internet needs to remain anonymous, not controlled by governments nor corporations.
It should be on the parents to monitor what their kids are doing, not private corporations.
we saw how well that turned out on Epstein’s Island
have to have id to buy a beer where I am.
There should also be a responsibility by private corporations to not offer services to minors, to prevent minors from disclosing their private info or creating vulnerabilities, and to remove content from unaccompanied minors
BUT
that should never require de-anonymizing the child, or anyone else.
@FiniteBanjo@feddit.online @Sunshine@piefed.ca @privacy@programming.dev
I started using computers when I had something between 8 or 9 years old and, thanks to my participation in platforms such as Orkut and programming/tech-related discussion boards, I became a developer. You read it right: I started tinkering with programming when I had only 9 years old. And now, at 30yo., although I’m currently unemployed, I have a curriculum comprised by 10 years worth of job positions, which would place me as a senior DevOps.
What you’re proposing “banning kids from things like social media”, would lead to kids like the past me 8yo being unable to pursue a hobby and, to a certain extent, a refuge from the scholar bullying and CSA I vaguely remember having suffered from cousins (therefore, the harm I suffered was not the Internet: it was beyond the Internet). If I were banned from using computers until I completed 18, I’d likely not have completed 18, because I’d be long dead by suicide, because you bet I’d killed myself during my teen ages if I had no digital refuge to the horrors of real life.
You’re proposing kids like the past me, who will continue suffering bullying at the school, who will continue suffering CSA at their households (because age checking does nothing to prevent those offline dangers), you’re proposing to take away what’s possibly their only refuge. Such a proposal will lead to suicides among children and teens, you shall know.
I truly hope you understand what you’re advocating for.
Not to take away from what you went through, but unless you can prove that social media actively prevented teenage suicides from bullying and abuse, your story is merely anecdotal evidence at best.
You also don’t need social media to learn programming, there’s plenty of other resources
@Lauchmelder@feddit.org @privacy@programming.dev
but unless you can prove that social media actively prevented teenage suicides from bullying and abuse
I didn’t kill myself (yet, although I think of death and Death Herself quite on a daily basis; Dark Mother has been in my thoughts for a long, long time). The fact I didn’t kill myself during my teen ages and talking here is a proof that the digital life somehow worked as a coping mechanism. But, well, you said yourself: my “story” is “merely anecdotal evidence”, I’m just a rando nobody, anyways, so who cares if I killed myself during my teens? 🤷♂️
You also don’t need social media to learn programming, there’s plenty of other resources
Your phrase is “things like social media”. Do you know what a discussion board is? Not to mention things like StackOverflow.
Also, social media isn’t evil in itself. I mean, just look around us: we’re right now taking in a programming community, in, guess what?, a social media platform! If social media was innately bad or something, we wouldn’t be here.
You’re kind of not really engaging with me in good faith, but I’ll bite anyways.
The fact you didn’t kill yourself, frankly, proves nothing. Not because you’re a rando, but because there’s no control. That’s why I said you need to prove that social media is reducing teen suicides, compared to the time before social media.
Secondly, it’s debatable whether platforms like SO, forums and Reddit are actually social media, or merely link aggregators and forums. Those sites provide their content for logged-out users anyways, so children can still view them regardless.
@Lauchmelder@feddit.org @privacy@programming.dev
You’re kind of not really engaging with me in good faith, but I’ll bite anyways.
My tone, which is baseline pedantic and dry (just see my past comments on Lemmy and you’ll notice that), partly due to the fact that I’m a ESL (English as a Second Language because I was born a Portuguese-speaking Brazilian) neurodivergent person, may sound further “aggressive” precisely because this kind of ongoing theme (age checking laws, childhood, etc) deeply touches me, but in no way I mean to be aggressive or acting in “bad faith”, it’s just my somber, dry tone speaking. I’m neither intending to attack you nor your person, just trying to question your arguments.
proves nothing. Not because you’re a rando, but because there’s no control. That’s why I said you need to prove that social media is reducing teen suicides, compared to the time before social media.
This kind of study, scientifically speaking, is hard to achieve when there’s no such thing as a “control group”. It also likely varies across countries, cultures and demographics.
To make matters worse, mental health awareness is quite a recent achievement. Not too long ago, mental health issues were hardly diagnosed. While proper diagnosis still struggles nowadays (with lots of under-diagnosed cases due to systemic issues from lack of healthcare access to prejudice), there seems to be no proper way to compare depression and suicidality before and after the advent of social networks.
At least to me, it seems like a thing that can’t be proved easily, not withi the full scientific rigor required by a peer-reviewable, double-blind, scientific proof.
Those sites provide their content for logged-out users anyways, so children can still view them regardless.
Viewing is being a guest and, at least in my case, I wasn’t just a guest: I actively participated, I actively talked to people, this is how I got to expose my questions and, hopefully, getting answers, because the existing exchanges aren’t always enough to cover a specific question one may have.
Learning isn’t simply about receiving knowledge without having a voice to talk back. Although much of my formation was self-taught, I still needed people to answer me things. Yeah, there are courses, but courses can be unaffordable for some demographics, because they cost real money, and this is where Internet used to thrive the most: the social connectivity offered for free by platforms and websites such as Orkut, BBSes, mailing lists, these things allowed for people to get what they couldn’t afford otherwise.
First of all, my comment very clearly says the internet needs to remain anonymous, and what I mean by that is any age information you give a company should be voluntary and by its nature unverifiable.
By social media I was referring to large communities: things such as Facebook, posting and commenting on YouTube, forum aggregators like Reddit and Mbin, etc. Basically, those entities shouldn’t be allowed to offer those services or knowingly provide them to minors.
Maybe discord…? Idk, it’s a collection of small close communities and private discussions, so maybe just decreased capabilities such as inability to use video conference.
@FiniteBanjo@feddit.online @privacy@programming.dev
First of all, my comment very clearly says the internet needs to remain anonymous, and what I mean by that is any age information you give a company should be voluntary and by its nature unverifiable.
In this regard I agree with you.
By social media I was referring to large communities: things such as Facebook, posting and commenting on YouTube, forum aggregators like Reddit and Mbin, etc. Basically, those entities shouldn’t be allowed to offer those services or knowingly provide them to minors.
Back in the days, Orkut was a large social media, especially here in Brazil where I exist. Orkut communities were a pretty popular feature, and there were several nice communities involving tech and programming, science, etc.
I learned a lot of things back then, thanks to Orkut communities. But I was a minor at the time, so if Orkut weren’t to provide for minors the intellectual connection that shaped the nerd I am today, I wouldn’t have the same amount of knowledge-pursuit drive, let alone the knowledge itself (or this biological existence, as I explicitly said how I’d have been committed suicide having nowhere else to mentally let go from my childhood nightmares).
Although… your suggestion about having limited features for minors (e.g. no video calls) while still allowing them in, is something I could sort of agree with.
Should start by blocking you
I really hope there’ll be an option to disable / block this when I’m not a California resident, and an option that allows faking the result per-app and response (so I can i.e give randomized results most of the time, with an option to switch to “random 18+” when I actually need it).
I also really hope that most distros will block California users from using it, or rather say that they can’t.
