Yes, and? Shame is useful. When I feel ashamed of something it leads to reflection and hopefully personal growth. Fear those incapable of shame.
Shaming isn’t necessarily bad. Shame fascists, abusers, bigots, the ultra wealthy, etc. I would guess that you agree with doing that. We just disagree if adults refusing to grow is shame worthy.
Not my intention. I used those extreme examples to make the point that shaming is not necessarily bad. Obviously, an adult that has a child’s mind, not due to a disability but because they refuse to grow, is more of a grey area where people can disagree if shaming is warranted. I find it pathetic and repellant, some others apparently disagree. Some of those may be well adjusted adults, but some of them may benefit from looking in the mirror I’m holding up
Reading YA novels does not mean they have a “child’s mind”. Rest and relaxation are also things to value, people cannot be “on” 100% of the time and having unchallenging fiction as a way to unwind is a better use of time than social media. (Speaking of holding up mirrors…)
There’s a big difference between unchallenging and childish. Don’t conflate the two.
Top chef is unchallenging, Sesame Street (R.I.P) is for children. An adult watching Top Chef can turn their brain off and chill, a non-mentally disabled adult watching Sesame Street (for themselves, not with kids) is childish.
A non-mentally disabled adult spending this much time judging imagined people on Facebook/Reddit/Lemmy for a single activity they do in their spare time is not someone you should take life advice from.
Lol, says the person who just can’t stop digging and keeps responding.
Well, I suppose it’s a good thing for you that you seem impervious to growth and admitting you’re wrong. Straw manning, moving the goal posts, and attacking the source is a good start for a tool box of skills used to resist any self reflection, I’m sure you’ve got a lot more in there.
How much time do you think this takes? What you’re saying isn’t exactly deep and thought provoking. 30 seconds to bang out a response when a little notification interrupts me catching up on the news isn’t much. I couldn’t have spent more than five minutes on this thread altogether, and 90 seconds on you tops.
I can understand shaming people for supporting JK Rowling, but shaming people for reading at or below their reading level just feels like pointless bullying. For what reason? What’s the goal of doing that?
I’ve read Heidegger, but my favorite books that I enjoy going back to reread for fun are at a 5th grade reading level. Do you feel the same way about adults who enjoy cartoons? Is partaking in easy/unchallenging comforts immature in your mind? If so, why? If not, where does this perspective come from?
It’s not about reading level. If someone has a low reading level due to disability, they should enjoy what they can, and if it’s not disability just reading anything will eventually fix that. It’s about the content. If someone is capable of understanding adult content and chooses to surround themselves with childish themes they are pathetic man/woman/person-babies.
It’s not about easy or unchallenging. I’m not sitting here only reading great literature or things filled with purple prose using sat vocab words. Around 70% of what I read is sci-fi/fantasy and I read A LOT, so my quality bar has to drop pretty low to keep me occupied in between the really good stuff. Again, it’s about adult vs. childish themes.
I’m sorry, but I feel like you’re being a little disingenuous here. I don’t think you need me to write an essay differentiating between various types of media. I think you know exactly what I mean when I mention people that refuse to grow up and continue to consume childish media well into adulthood.
No, I didn’t know what you meant, and I think all the hate you’re getting suggests you’re doing a poor job of communicating effectively and it’s not a me-problem.
I’m not trying to be disingenuous, but I do see that I’ve conflated reading level with target audience, but my initial argument still stands if we swap that out. When I said I enjoy reading books at a 5th grade reading level, I meant books whose target audience is middle schoolers.
Consuming “childish” media ≠ refusing to grow up. I think that’s a very important distinction to make, and your comments in this thread seem to be conflating the two. At the same time though, what’s wrong with “refusing to grow up”? Why is it so important to you that others be mature?
I think “hate” is a bit strong, simple disagreement I hope. But I’ve been pretty clear. The responses are probably mostly from two kinds of people: people that don’t like being called children and people who get offended on others behalf and like to argue for the sake of arguing.
As far as you enjoying books with a target audience of 5th graders; I honestly don’t know what to say to that that I haven’t already. I can’t imagine what a healthy adult could possibly get out of that. I remember those books fondly, but reading them now?
Surrounding yourself with the trappings of childhood into adulthood is refusing to grow up to some extent. Peter Pan syndrome isn’t an actual clinical diagnosis, but it seems like an awful way to live, and awful people to be around. I wouldn’t choose to hang out with a bunch of 15 year olds, why would I spend time with anyone that acted as if they were? Why someone would want to deny themselves the richness of a full life is just as puzzeling as why they wouldn’t expect people to judge them for it and avoid them.
This perspective is so foreign to me. It’s a valid opinion ofc, which I can respect, but I don’t respect the overt judgement- it’s the needless shitting on people that I think is a problem, and it honestly comes across as insecure and, ironically, a little immature.
In my clinical experience as a therapist, it’s often actually an indication of health for adults to partake in such things.
You talk like your perspective is the natural default, but I think it’s not, and I think this says a lot more about you than it does others.
I freely admit that I lack tack, but that’s another discussion.
I don’t claim to have any clinical experience but when a person consumes media with plot points and conflict designed to have a teen identify with it, I find that very off-putting (without mitigating circumstances), and assume their inner world is that of a child’s.
If I’m catching up with someone and I ask them “whatcha reading” and they respond with a children’s book without any qualifier like “to my kid” or “with my kid so we can talk about it”, I’m going to question if this is someone I want to spend time with.
I don’t know about “natural default”, that might be too generous. But if someone never makes it past their teens, I’m going to think certain things about them.
I won’t stop them, I will just socially shame them with an intent to stop them.
You have all the tact of a conversion therapy camp. I have nothing more to say to a closed-minded person like you.
Yes, and? Shame is useful. When I feel ashamed of something it leads to reflection and hopefully personal growth. Fear those incapable of shame.
Shaming isn’t necessarily bad. Shame fascists, abusers, bigots, the ultra wealthy, etc. I would guess that you agree with doing that. We just disagree if adults refusing to grow is shame worthy.
You are equating adults reading YA novels to “fascists, abusers, bigots, the ultra wealthy, etc.”
It’s time to admit your argument may have gone off the rails at some point.
Not my intention. I used those extreme examples to make the point that shaming is not necessarily bad. Obviously, an adult that has a child’s mind, not due to a disability but because they refuse to grow, is more of a grey area where people can disagree if shaming is warranted. I find it pathetic and repellant, some others apparently disagree. Some of those may be well adjusted adults, but some of them may benefit from looking in the mirror I’m holding up
Reading YA novels does not mean they have a “child’s mind”. Rest and relaxation are also things to value, people cannot be “on” 100% of the time and having unchallenging fiction as a way to unwind is a better use of time than social media. (Speaking of holding up mirrors…)
There’s a big difference between unchallenging and childish. Don’t conflate the two.
Top chef is unchallenging, Sesame Street (R.I.P) is for children. An adult watching Top Chef can turn their brain off and chill, a non-mentally disabled adult watching Sesame Street (for themselves, not with kids) is childish.
A non-mentally disabled adult spending this much time judging imagined people on Facebook/Reddit/Lemmy for a single activity they do in their spare time is not someone you should take life advice from.
Lol, says the person who just can’t stop digging and keeps responding.
Well, I suppose it’s a good thing for you that you seem impervious to growth and admitting you’re wrong. Straw manning, moving the goal posts, and attacking the source is a good start for a tool box of skills used to resist any self reflection, I’m sure you’ve got a lot more in there.
How much time do you think this takes? What you’re saying isn’t exactly deep and thought provoking. 30 seconds to bang out a response when a little notification interrupts me catching up on the news isn’t much. I couldn’t have spent more than five minutes on this thread altogether, and 90 seconds on you tops.
I can understand shaming people for supporting JK Rowling, but shaming people for reading at or below their reading level just feels like pointless bullying. For what reason? What’s the goal of doing that?
I’ve read Heidegger, but my favorite books that I enjoy going back to reread for fun are at a 5th grade reading level. Do you feel the same way about adults who enjoy cartoons? Is partaking in easy/unchallenging comforts immature in your mind? If so, why? If not, where does this perspective come from?
It’s not about reading level. If someone has a low reading level due to disability, they should enjoy what they can, and if it’s not disability just reading anything will eventually fix that. It’s about the content. If someone is capable of understanding adult content and chooses to surround themselves with childish themes they are pathetic man/woman/person-babies.
It’s not about easy or unchallenging. I’m not sitting here only reading great literature or things filled with purple prose using sat vocab words. Around 70% of what I read is sci-fi/fantasy and I read A LOT, so my quality bar has to drop pretty low to keep me occupied in between the really good stuff. Again, it’s about adult vs. childish themes.
I’m sorry, but I feel like you’re being a little disingenuous here. I don’t think you need me to write an essay differentiating between various types of media. I think you know exactly what I mean when I mention people that refuse to grow up and continue to consume childish media well into adulthood.
No, I didn’t know what you meant, and I think all the hate you’re getting suggests you’re doing a poor job of communicating effectively and it’s not a me-problem.
I’m not trying to be disingenuous, but I do see that I’ve conflated reading level with target audience, but my initial argument still stands if we swap that out. When I said I enjoy reading books at a 5th grade reading level, I meant books whose target audience is middle schoolers.
Consuming “childish” media ≠ refusing to grow up. I think that’s a very important distinction to make, and your comments in this thread seem to be conflating the two. At the same time though, what’s wrong with “refusing to grow up”? Why is it so important to you that others be mature?
I think “hate” is a bit strong, simple disagreement I hope. But I’ve been pretty clear. The responses are probably mostly from two kinds of people: people that don’t like being called children and people who get offended on others behalf and like to argue for the sake of arguing.
As far as you enjoying books with a target audience of 5th graders; I honestly don’t know what to say to that that I haven’t already. I can’t imagine what a healthy adult could possibly get out of that. I remember those books fondly, but reading them now?
Surrounding yourself with the trappings of childhood into adulthood is refusing to grow up to some extent. Peter Pan syndrome isn’t an actual clinical diagnosis, but it seems like an awful way to live, and awful people to be around. I wouldn’t choose to hang out with a bunch of 15 year olds, why would I spend time with anyone that acted as if they were? Why someone would want to deny themselves the richness of a full life is just as puzzeling as why they wouldn’t expect people to judge them for it and avoid them.
This perspective is so foreign to me. It’s a valid opinion ofc, which I can respect, but I don’t respect the overt judgement- it’s the needless shitting on people that I think is a problem, and it honestly comes across as insecure and, ironically, a little immature.
In my clinical experience as a therapist, it’s often actually an indication of health for adults to partake in such things.
You talk like your perspective is the natural default, but I think it’s not, and I think this says a lot more about you than it does others.
I freely admit that I lack tack, but that’s another discussion.
I don’t claim to have any clinical experience but when a person consumes media with plot points and conflict designed to have a teen identify with it, I find that very off-putting (without mitigating circumstances), and assume their inner world is that of a child’s.
If I’m catching up with someone and I ask them “whatcha reading” and they respond with a children’s book without any qualifier like “to my kid” or “with my kid so we can talk about it”, I’m going to question if this is someone I want to spend time with.
I don’t know about “natural default”, that might be too generous. But if someone never makes it past their teens, I’m going to think certain things about them.