You must log in or register to comment.
Even if a book I read as a teenager was the best book of all time and the author was the greatest person to ever live who was literally Jesus I would still read other books because being a literate adult requires one to read a wide variety of new material over time lol
While I agree it’s logical to boycott her, portraying HP fans as trans abusers is a bit much. If buying the HP books is equivalent to punching a chained down trans person in the face then absolutely none of us, including the artist here, haven’t done worse.
I’d bet anything they have bought products on Amazon, which makes them responsible for Bezos. Does that artist have an X account for advertisement? That gas they buy makes them responsible for violence the middle east. Are they one of the remarkable few who ethically source clothes without child labor? Bet not.
I boycott all kinds of stuff, but demonizing people for not joining you is nonsensical in this consumerist hellscape where complete harm avoidance isn’t possible.
I personally feel that it’s perfectly fine to boycott problematic figures. Speech has real effects and should be treated like it.
But once you accept the equivalence of speech/reading and violence you can start choosing to regulate speech/reading as violence, or free up violence as speech. I don’t think either is a great idea. Do you think that any of you have never said something hurtful to others? Should you be jailed for it?
I await all the civil and non-hurtful replies from peaceful and sympathetic people I am likely to garner for this stance.
I await all the civil and non-hurtful replies from peaceful and sympathetic people I am likely to garner for this stance.
You are a
greatperson Iagreewith you and hope youlive
The really weird thing is how many LGBTQ folks latched onto HP in its early releases as what was recognized to be a kind-of pro-queer YA novel.
You had a young boy who was literally in the closet, disowned and disrespected by family, who is spirited away to a magical school where his differences are valued and cultivated. He’s got a bunch of friends who could easily sub in for queer icons. There are gender-bending magical spells, the bad guys are explicitly fascist, most books end with some kind of “The power of friendship and love will triumph!” rejoinder. FFS, Dumbledore is canonically gay.
It is far more a testament to the psychologically corrosive power of plutocracy that JK Rowling went off the rails. I don’t think it’s unfair for people to like the books and hate the author. Just remember not to pay for anything and you’re fine.
O don’t mind anyone enjoying media from problematic figures if they enjoy it. I just don’t want those fans to monetarily support those figures.
Sail the high seas if you wanna partake in such content.
Even if you download it and J.K.R. doesn’t see a penny you’re still engaging with media that is anti-trans and that’s just as bad. There is no ethical consumption of her work, full stop.
HOW are the Harry Potter books Anti-trans? Where in ANY of the books do they promote Anti Trans attitudes?
Is there anything anti-trans in Harry Potter?
I genuinely don’t know. I’ve never read or watched it.
To that I would add that if you want to recommend such content to others it should preferably done with the addition of how others could access it through alternative means. Just to reduce the chance the recommendation leads to any extra income.
are we allowed to do that here
um
I can
But I think most people on Lemmy already know
Sorry I’m high
Man, I have literally heard people say you should burn the books and movies you probably already owned long before Rowling was known to be a TERF. The art isn’t the problem. As long as you’re not continuing to financially support the bitch herself, Harry Potter himself ain’t gonna harm trans people.
The art isn’t the problem
Yeah, it’s not like you have anything like
- Two Indian characters named after the region they’re supposed to be from
- Stereotypically named Irish character obsessed with blowing stuff up and making alcohol
- An Asian character named “cho chang”
- Bankers that are barely disguised anti-Semitic tropes
- Literally a tweet saying only “Anthony Goldstein, Ravenclaw, Jewish wizard.” in response to accusations of no Jewish wizards
- Naming the black adult “Shacklebolt”
what’s with the shacklebolt one? is it like shackles as a nod to slavery or what?
Yeah, that’s my only explanation for that kind of a name for a black person. Whether or not it was intentional, I have to assume she’s massively racist, as are all of her editors/publisher. Too many people has the opportunity to say ‘what the fuck, lady’, and it still went to print.
But HP isn’t even good
The first movie was ok at best
The first movie was like the worst one.
Strong disagree.
Yep, second one is the worst by miles. There’s lots of cool bits in it, but the overall narrative is a mess. The basilisk is also seriously dodgy-looking in several shots.
The first one is significantly more kiddy than the others, but it’s really well-executed.
First one gets a lot of praise and passes because it’s the introduction to the world. Everyone knows the origin story is the best part so it’s fine if it’s rough around the edges. Also if you’ve only seen one Harry Potter movie, it’s going to be that one for obvious reasons.
I remember when the first book was published and everyone was losing their minds. One of my 9th grade classes was English or literature or something, it was a long time ago I don’t remember, and our teacher would read it to us and I remember thinking it was just ok and if we had to sit here and listen to her read she should pick something more interesting/challenging/better written but most people in class were obsessed
You want comfort British wizard comfort characters: read the Rivers of London series.
I read the books, but I was 14 and it was 2000. Haven’t consumed any of it since.
I was 14 and it was 2000
Quite the age difference there.
I offer you the dad crown.
Same, and I might add, they’re not that good. In my personal opinion, they get worse as you go. The last book was a slog man
Almost 40 eh? I’m right behind you buddy…
I’ve scouted up ahead and recommend turning back
Turn? Mate, my knees, back and neck are no longer capable supporting that function.
if you’re looking for something else to recommend people, i’d point you to Verity Vox and the Curse of Foxfire
I’m over 40.
I gave up Bill Cosby. I gave up Kevin Spacey. I gave up all of the 80s and 90s movies about toxic masculinity and misogyny. I gave up Aerosmith (maybe Steven Tyler hasn’t been canceled yet but COME ON have you heard the lyrics to any single one of his songs). I gave up Michael Richards (and Seinfeld too). I gave up Michael Jackson.
You can give up Harry Potter. It’s the right thing to do, it’s worth it, and it’s the adult decision. Grow up and check your allegiances. They’ll define you.
it’s the adult decision.
MY decision is the ADULT decision. Ok buddy… you’re a big man now.
Grow up and check your allegiances. They’ll define you.
Oh yes laughing at an episode of seinfeld has DEFINED me as some who needs to GROW UP.
hahahah what a load of shite.
You can give up Harry Potter. It’s the right thing to do, it’s worth it, and it’s the adult decision.
It’s a children’s story. I don’t think you’re asking for people to leap over mountains by giving up childhood things as an adult.
At the same time, people seem to fixate on the consumerist aesthetics and ignore the material realities. If you’ve got transgender friends and family that you support with your time and care and money, and you want to flip through an old dog-eared copy of Philosopher’s Stone (or rewatch The Usual Suspects or throw on an episode of Fat Albert) because of nostalgia, I don’t think you’re committing any kind of grievous sin.
JK Rowling isn’t going to stop being a billionaire because you played a HP themed video game or watched an episode of her rebooted book show on HBO.
Meanwhile, abstaining from all things problematic, without doing anything materially positive for any of the LGBTQ folks in your life isn’t doing anyone any favors. Being a Consumerist Harpy who only knows how to scream at people for their mass media of choice, in the name of LGBTQ, is turning civil advocacy into some kind of branding exercise.
I’ve had a theory for a long time that many of the “LGBT advocate/ally” voices that participate in the discourse aren’t actually doing so in our best interests. Many ways I’ve seen people who call themselves allies talk and act are more likely to push people away than educate.
Preferably I’d like if people could just let HP die and fade away, but beyond that just try not to give her royalty money, and if you can’t do that then at the least i don’t want to hear about it.
Preferably I’d like if people could just let HP die and fade away
With enough time and a vacuum of marketing dollars, it will. The reboot is already flopping.
just try not to give her royalty money, and if you can’t do that then at the least i don’t want to hear about it.
Hard to advocate for a boycott without hearing about the things you’re boycotting.
The principle of a boycott is to pressure the business to change it’s policies. The implication is that you’d come back if they reformed.
If you’re really looking to replace a franchise rather than reform it, helps to fill the vacuum.
“I’m a big fan of X over Y, because it’s got all the things I like without the crude” tends to bend more ears than “Stop doing Y without my permission!”
Might want to rethink Michael Jackson. A lot of what he’s been accused of turned out to be an Epstein smear campaign when he interfered with their ops. McCauley Caulkin spoke out about this recently.
I always knew it was a set-up. I looked up to him as a kid, and people made fun of me for it, but I never believed the things they said about him.
He had a troubled past, he was eccentric and effeminate and that already made him a target for hate, but he genuinely seemed to care about kids and wanted to offer them a better childhood than the one he had.
It was a recipe for a PR shitstorm, especially when you throw “trying to disrupt an actual billionaire pedo ring funded by mossad” into the mix…
He didn’t destroy McCauley, though. The publicity did. Imagine how confusing it must be to a child, to be torn away from your mentor, possibly the only person who sees you as a human and values you as such, who understands what a personal hell being a child star can be. All because he was accused of doing things to you, and the rest of the adults don’t seem to care what you have to say about it…
And then having to finish growing up without your mentor, with all the meanness of the world amplified by fame and stigma, when no one will get near you or even mention your name except to make fun of you, and they all do it with this self-righteous smugness as if they’re convinced to their bones that they’re better than you, and they feel completely morally justified in their judgements, too…
Yeah, I never thought MJ was the bad guy. It’s a bit of a relief to hear his name has been cleared after all these years, even if it’s come too late. If he were alive today, I wonder if he would’ve ever come out as trans. I can only speculate now, as only he could ever make that determination for himself.
Anyway, I still remember listening on the radio when he was in the hospital, in cardiac arrest, and then being declared dead. It was a sad day for me. I think it was drug-related though, so I wonder if it still would’ve happened if he wasn’t so hated. Or if he hadn’t been so abused himself as a child. Again, just speculation, now…
You know, I have to wonder if that overdose was really accidental now. He pissed off some really powerful people who just don’t accept being told “no.”
Got a source?
Mac culkin and Corey Feldman have both talked about MJ positively many times in the past few years.
Corey Feldman is the reason I don’t believe the accusations against MJ. What that kid went through is horrific and predators can smell prey a mile away. If Michael was abusing kids there is no way he would have missed that one, Corey would have been an easy target after what they did to him. But Corey comes out and tries to shine a light on the things that are happening and specifically says that Michael never did anything inappropriate.
I mean that’s great and all but a real source would be nice. Someone who was a kid speaking nicely about someone accused of harming kids, isn’t an exoneration. That’s like Kanye saying Nick Fuentes isn’t racist.
Note not taking either side on the topic. I don’t know or really care that much on MJ, an actual useful source would be say an epstein letter where epsteins announcing they want to make MJ look guilty. Fully plausible that MJ’s scandal was a combination of people saying he’s weird, with a few chasing a paycheck. But someone who fits the demographic saying “I was around him for years and I was never abused”, is IMO not evidence.
That entire paragraph breaks my brain.
Why, cause you’ve spent your life hating someone who was not only innocent, but it now comes out that he was actually trying to disrupt a powerful cabal committing the actual crimes, and got accused as a result and a deflection?
Or because you’re unwilling to admit that to yourself and reexamine the beliefs you’re so accustomed to holding in that regard?
I’m not giving up the books I bought decades ago and before she outed herself as an idiot.
I’m not stopping enjoying the stories that helped me to grow into the person I am today.
I’m not pretending that as a gay kid having a positive gay role model in Dumbledore wasn’t a wonderful thing.
I am not giving her anymore money.
I am not supporting her an anyway.
You can hate a person’s opinions and still love their art.
Its almost like everyone is human and capable of holding contradictory ideas.
While you’re keeping an open mind then You can also expand your options to include artists who don’t have to be an asshole.
Separate the artist from the art doesnt just have to happen if they are an asshole.
There’s like a plethora of magic school books and films and tv series especially circa 2012 onward to dig into by other artists trying to compete. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to give them a chance.
You gonna watch the new show?
I’ll probably watch the first couple episodes just out of curiousity. I’m already paying for the service. It’s going to get watching by my family regardless. I’m getting outrage fatigue if I am being honest. It’s just hard to care about anything these days.
No, obviously.
Pirate it so it doesn’t show up on their dashboards as a view.
A hate-watch is still a view
Piracy = popularity. The big studios take torrent popularity as a metric these days. Even if you’re not paying for the show, everyone seeding and downloading that torrent is being used as a sign by the industry that they should keep giving Rowling money which she, in turn, uses to harm people.
Pirating her content is still making her rich, while also granting her a deeper foothold in your own media environment, heart, and mind. You deserve better, and you can do better.
Torrents aren’t the only form of piracy.
It’s really not that hard to find something else to watch.
Great job moving the goalpost.
All piracy is popularity.
It literally isn’t.
Yeah, and let’s not forget that Harry Potter is a series of books written for literal children.
It’s time to grow up and read something written for actual adults. You might be surprised to find that HP is actually kind of shit.
Adults are allowed to read things written for children. Shaming people for that is ageist as fuck.
There are LOTS of good reasons to stop engaging with HP, but this ain’t one of them.
Ageist is a bit of a stretch. Maybe ableist since an adult reading children’s books is a sign of developmental disability.
Ew, that’s not true either. Lemmy is NOT the place for gatekeeping assholes. Take that bullshit to X.
That’s not really gatekeeping. Maybe gatekeeping a fully emotionally developed adult? But that’s a bit of a stretch too. You can’t just throw around buzzwords and expect it to mean anything. And you definitely can’t be expected to be taken seriously.
Maybe if you put down the YA and read something age appropriate you’d get a better feel for adult interactions.
No. Gatekeeping was the polite way to say that you have no fucking right to stop someone from doing what they enjoy, as long as they aren’t harming someone else. I personally don’t read YA novels, but I will protect that right for everyone else.
The correct term, rather than gatekeeper, would be fascist. You can fuck right off if you’re going to try controlling what media a person consumes. If you truly think what you’re saying, you are a morally bankrupt human.
With all that stretching and leaping you must be limber as fuck.
I would never stop anyone from doing anything that didn’t harm someone else. But I will judge the fuck out of them. Disney adults, children’s book readers, broneys, etc. are children’s minds in adults bodies. If it’s because of a disability, good for them, they should enjoy life in whichever way suits them. If not, it’s pathetic and they should seek help with their personal growth.
Its literally not. Stop being a fucking twat.
I enjoy hard scifi, politics, health, … and also enjoy some “for children” media. Just like I enjoy listening to metal, 80s, … and also listening to jazz.
They downvoted him for he spoke the truth.
Unfortunately, Rowling probably won’t lose her millions (billions?) if we stop reading/watching her slop. But we CAN prevent her getting even more millions.
There’s a plethora of artists to choose from that aren’t assholes. These folks keep talking about opening mind to other points of view. If that’s their stance then they can open mind to new options.
No, you need to have an open mind to their opinion, they don’t need to give you the same benefit
The Sorting Hat really sells it.
Kudos Erin🥂A better alternative.
I tried to watch Owl House but it is too boring for me :(
it gets better.
It’s also meant for kids.
I have a better Teens show in my banner.We even made a recent 🧵 about this.
My parents moved a few months ago, and that meant I had to come over and decide what to do with some of the stuff I owned that was still at their house. I sorted things into “keep” and “throw away” piles.
One of the things I had to decide on was my Harry Potter books. My parents were surprised I put them in the “throw away” pile. It was hard for a moment, not because of what they were, but because I remember the day my dad came home and surprised me with books 2 and 3. I had read the first book for school, but the first 4 books had already been published by the time I got into it, so my friends were well ahead of me. I was so happy when my dad spontaneously did that. I hadn’t asked for the books, but he knew I wanted them and went out of his way to get them just to surprise me. I felt so loved.
As I held those same books in my hands, 25 years since first receiving them, I took in that loved feeling, but it was twinged with disgust for JK Rowling. Although it pained me, I knew I wouldn’t be reading them again. In my internal monologue, I told myself, "These books served their purpose long ago. It’s okay to let them go and move on."
So into the “throw away” pile they went. The only things worth keeping anymore are the memories and experiences that those books originally opened up to me, and those can’t be tossed out even if I wanted to. Putting the books into that pile felt like visiting a wake - the series is dead to me now, and with this final viewing, I could have closure over it and finally say goodbye.
Hate to break it to you, but you can absolutely lose memories. Time is a bitch.
Why not give them to someone for free such that they do not need to spend money for them?
I mean, when you are going through piles of old sh*t to keep or trash, by, like, the second hour, you just want to throw it all away. Ain’t no one got time to find a person who wants each one of their things that they don’t want to keep anymore.
These days we have websites for exactly that purpose.
A lot of the major furniture in my apartment came from people getting rid of stuff that I found via free-and-for-sale pages.
Still promotes someone else supporting her nonsense.
I’ll confess to keeping one item of HP merch. It’s a cup that we use for scooping car litter.
