“If at first you don’t succeed, try again.” “Winners never quit and quitters never win.”

Our culture has a lot of sayings against quitting, making it seem like a failure. But sometimes, abandoning a goal means opening up space for something better.

By NPR.

  • JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.socialEnglish
    3·
    2 days ago

    This is alarmingly toxic justification for my chronic-fatigue, disabled friend who insists on never starting anything

    As someone with clinical CFS/ME which has effectively ruined my chances at a ‘traditional’ life (school career, job career, hanging on to relationships, starting a family), I find the above misses much of the point.

    While you’re right that ideally and arguably it’s intended for ‘normal-energy’ people, I think that in fact it applies to almost everyone in life. That is, in this game of life we all need to pursue the things we can, while being cautious of toxic-overpursuing. That can apply to CFS/ME and other sufferers equally accurately as it can to the mean, or the ideal.

    This is dangerous content for people who are already unmotivated and near-suicidal.

    I think the reverse could equally be argued, and argued better. If you read through the comic again I think you’ll find that in no way, shape or form is it attempting to say ‘don’t even bother trying; just give up now.’ And that to me displays the toxic old thought process of “winners never quit and quitters never win.”

    • Flagstaff@programming.devEnglish
      2·
      2 days ago
      1. To be fair, the friend I speak of has only been diagnosed with fibromyalgia, not specifically CFS, though I wonder if CFS may be a better fit for them, or could be comorbid.

      2. we all need to pursue the things we can

      My friend would be disgusted by this line of thought and would say, “I already have put more than my all and look where it got me: nowhere. It’s clearly better to just not try and suffer more.” I’ve wrestled over and over again over this with them, though I know there are definitely multiple mental disorders and paper-thin skin going on with them as well.

      1. If you read through the comic again I think you’ll find that in no way, shape or form is it attempting to say ‘don’t even bother trying; just give up now.’

      I never said that it is attempting to say that; I said (or implied, sorry) that people like my friend will indubitably (mis)interpret it that way. All I’m saying is that I believe this sort of comic could backfire in an ironically terrible way if it so strongly pushes anti-burnout. It is really quite well-made otherwise, certainly.

      I’m sorry you have to deal with CFS. I can only imagine how tough that must be.

      • JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.socialEnglish
        3·
        2 days ago

        My friend would be disgusted by this line of thought and would say, “I already have put more than my all and look where it got me: nowhere.

        Toxic / useless thinking alert! IMO, the above, unhealthy thinking is like treating such things as binary accomplishments, and that’s a pretty massive mistake upon such matters.

        For example, does your friend need to pee in the night? Well, that can be a real problem for us Myalgic encephalomyelitis crowd. I.e. rousing ourselves from that state can be pretty weird on its own, with plenty of chances to slip and bonk oneself upside the cranium, making for the bathroom. But also, toddling off to the WC when one has naturally poor balance (from sleep and fatigue) can present some further precarious situations. Welcome to the CFS/ME world, Flaggie.

        So here’s a real-world example of what Annie (and I) am saying-- you don’t have to fight such unnecessary battles, merely for decorum’s sake! I.e., please DO surrender upon such useless matters, quit that nonsense, and get yourself a dang ol’ chamber pot, yeah?

        • Flagstaff@programming.devEnglish
          1·
          2 days ago

          Hey, I agree with you. I’m saying I know for sure that that’s exactly how they’ll react, and I’m well aware that it’s toxic. I’ve been trying to change their mind for literal years and I’m at the brink of giving up because it’s been like smashing my head against a brick titanium wall. All I’m saying is that there are people who I would absolutely not send these comics to because it’d exacerbate their struggles, for as long as they have their current mindset, anyway.

          Yes, this friend has also been diagnosed as autistic and thinks way too binary, and just keeps going back to this all-or-nothing/nuclear mindset despite me doing my best to change that… It’s been absolutely aggravating and I think I just need to pull back.

          • JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.socialEnglish
            1·
            2 days ago

            Huh, okay.
            Sorry for my rudeness.
            I’m not such a happy person these days, but…
            that’s not your problem.

            Sorry bout that, mate.

            • Flagstaff@programming.devEnglish
              3·
              2 days ago

              Oh, I didn’t think it was rude; just a small misunderstanding at worst. I’m glad we’re on the same page. I really hope that I can get them to think in fewer black-&-white ways as you have achieved, because recognizing smaller wins or steps on the zigzag path to stability could be the biggest booster to their quality of life!