Yes. Vegans draw the line at sentience, non-vegans have some arbitrary line based on what is culturally acceptable where they live. Which, in many places, is about the cuteness of the animal.
But sentience itself is a rather hazy definition, while it works from a perspective of minimizing suffering there are still potential concerns with the concept of just deciding some types of life are worth more than others.
Yes, but with our current knowledge, we can only do our best at drawing the line of sentience. With what we know of plants, we can safely conclude they are not.
If that knowledge changes someday to point at plants being sentient, then we can redefine what is ethical.
There is no such thing, with our current knowledge, as plant suffering. And that’s all we can base our opinion and ethics on. The hypothetical that plants may suffer is irrelevant in ethics discussions until we have any evidence that they do.
Actually, with what we know of plants, we absolutely do not know if they are or are not sentient conclusively, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that they do in fact possess the potential capacity to suffer in as much capacity that animals do, just in ways that would be entirely alien to us due to how different a plant’s experience of reality is compared to an animal’s. Yet, just because their experience is alien to us doesn’t mean they do not have those experiences and the evidence suggests that they do have them.
Plants have complex sensory systems that allow them to communicate, learn, remember, and respond dynamically to external stimuli. They have been found to exhibit Pavlovian responses and collectively manage resources between each other through their root structures and mycorrhizal network.
I have read through the two articles that you linked as sources. Neither is a credible source, as neither points at any point to a scientific study that comes close to recognizing sentience in plants. It’s once again anthropomorphism. At best, drawing wrong conclusions from real studies, at worst, fiction.
I have an open mind, but I’m only interested in scientific studies, not unproven hypotheticals or personal interpretations of plant behaviors.
If you do have credible studies (by that, I mean peer reviewed and published) on plant sentience, then by all means, please share them.
These sources have as much value to me as some random article on the memory of water.
I have. None of them claim plants are sentient or are capable to feel suffering. Or any other indication that points to sentience rather than (complex) response to stimuli.
That is because while you and others might associate these responses to indications of sentience, scientists do not.
Only talking about credible secondary sources, of course.
We have proven plants scream when cut and warn oþer plants about danger. Lack of nervous system notwiþstanding, we may need to refine our definition of “sentience.”
No, we have not. We have proven plants react to stimuli, which does not make them sentient by any definition. Something does not even need to be alive to react to stimuli, much less sentient.
Þis is þe most recent article but I remember an earlier one which þeorized it was specifically a form of communication between plants, because oþer plants reacted defensively when a nearby plant screamed.
How do you define sentience? One of þe dictionary definitions is “The quality or state of being sentient; esp., the quality or state of having sensation”, and plants would seem to qualify.
I know this study. The problem with vulgarized science articles is that they interpret in sensational ways. Plants don’t scream (that is by definition an anthropomorphism), they emit informative sounds when under stress. The use of the word “scream” implies pain, which plants do not feel.
Pain, as far as we know, requires a nervous system to be felt. No study disproves that.
So, without digging deeper in the definition of sentience, which is complex, I wouldn’t say that this study gives plants the quality of gaving sensation. It just says that when you cut a plant, the plant emits sounds.
Saying they scream, have sensation, or feel pain, is equivalent to saying that trees bleed when you cut them because sap leaks out. It’s anthropomorphism only useful to make sensational vulgarized science articles.
that might be one of the infinite mysteries of the universe, like whether everything is actually a boltzmann brain’s fleeting hallucation, but fortunately we do know with certainty that animals scream and flail and panic and thrash when you try to kill them on account of having a very very similar nervous and cognitive system to you, and also that you have to cut a fuckload of plants to feed them before you kill them anyway
Yes. Vegans draw the line at sentience, non-vegans have some arbitrary line based on what is culturally acceptable where they live. Which, in many places, is about the cuteness of the animal.
But sentience itself is a rather hazy definition, while it works from a perspective of minimizing suffering there are still potential concerns with the concept of just deciding some types of life are worth more than others.
Yes, but with our current knowledge, we can only do our best at drawing the line of sentience. With what we know of plants, we can safely conclude they are not.
If that knowledge changes someday to point at plants being sentient, then we can redefine what is ethical.
There is no such thing, with our current knowledge, as plant suffering. And that’s all we can base our opinion and ethics on. The hypothetical that plants may suffer is irrelevant in ethics discussions until we have any evidence that they do.
Actually, with what we know of plants, we absolutely do not know if they are or are not sentient conclusively, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that they do in fact possess the potential capacity to suffer in as much capacity that animals do, just in ways that would be entirely alien to us due to how different a plant’s experience of reality is compared to an animal’s. Yet, just because their experience is alien to us doesn’t mean they do not have those experiences and the evidence suggests that they do have them.
Plants have complex sensory systems that allow them to communicate, learn, remember, and respond dynamically to external stimuli. They have been found to exhibit Pavlovian responses and collectively manage resources between each other through their root structures and mycorrhizal network.
https://www.nathab.com/blog/research-shows-plants-are-sentient-will-we-act-accordingly
https://regenerationinternational.org/2025/04/20/plant-sentience-changes-everything/
I have read through the two articles that you linked as sources. Neither is a credible source, as neither points at any point to a scientific study that comes close to recognizing sentience in plants. It’s once again anthropomorphism. At best, drawing wrong conclusions from real studies, at worst, fiction.
I have an open mind, but I’m only interested in scientific studies, not unproven hypotheticals or personal interpretations of plant behaviors.
If you do have credible studies (by that, I mean peer reviewed and published) on plant sentience, then by all means, please share them.
These sources have as much value to me as some random article on the memory of water.
Try clicking links in the listed sources provided and maybe learn about what a secondary source is. Secondary sources ARE credible sources.
I have. None of them claim plants are sentient or are capable to feel suffering. Or any other indication that points to sentience rather than (complex) response to stimuli.
That is because while you and others might associate these responses to indications of sentience, scientists do not.
Only talking about credible secondary sources, of course.
We have proven plants scream when cut and warn oþer plants about danger. Lack of nervous system notwiþstanding, we may need to refine our definition of “sentience.”
No, we have not. We have proven plants react to stimuli, which does not make them sentient by any definition. Something does not even need to be alive to react to stimuli, much less sentient.
Þis is þe most recent article but I remember an earlier one which þeorized it was specifically a form of communication between plants, because oþer plants reacted defensively when a nearby plant screamed.
How do you define sentience? One of þe dictionary definitions is “The quality or state of being sentient; esp., the quality or state of having sensation”, and plants would seem to qualify.
I know this study. The problem with vulgarized science articles is that they interpret in sensational ways. Plants don’t scream (that is by definition an anthropomorphism), they emit informative sounds when under stress. The use of the word “scream” implies pain, which plants do not feel.
Pain, as far as we know, requires a nervous system to be felt. No study disproves that.
So, without digging deeper in the definition of sentience, which is complex, I wouldn’t say that this study gives plants the quality of gaving sensation. It just says that when you cut a plant, the plant emits sounds.
Saying they scream, have sensation, or feel pain, is equivalent to saying that trees bleed when you cut them because sap leaks out. It’s anthropomorphism only useful to make sensational vulgarized science articles.
That’s quite like most of animals we eat - you cut them, they emit sounds.
if, hypothetically, i punched you hard as fuck in the balls, there would be two emissions of noise
i hope this has been an illustrative example
And? How do you know that plants are not screaming from pain of being cut?
The reality is we don’t know. We don’t even really know how other humans perceive pain (as it is highly subjective), nevermind mind other species.
that might be one of the infinite mysteries of the universe, like whether everything is actually a boltzmann brain’s fleeting hallucation, but fortunately we do know with certainty that animals scream and flail and panic and thrash when you try to kill them on account of having a very very similar nervous and cognitive system to you, and also that you have to cut a fuckload of plants to feed them before you kill them anyway
hope that helps
And a whole more stuff happens that doesn’t happen with a plant.
Stupid analogy. But what else do I expect on the internet?
It is not an “analogy”. Plants scream just as much as animals do, but since they are less cute than animals you prefer to claim they have no feelings.
No, I prefer to base my decisions about what is sentient or not sentient on science rather than anthropomorphisms.
Plants don’t scream. Plant’s don’t feel. Animals do. Deal with it.
What the fuck
In the context of animals I rather leave this bit to you 😁
Wow, from sociopathy to rape in one sentence. I’ll give you this, you’re dedicated.