- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
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well most countries have below-replacement births anyways.
Not a problem unless you were counting on collecting social security
I don’t know if I plan on being around that long
You could withhold your taxes but doing that would be too large an action for most Americans.
That’s a great way to ensure you won’t be around that long.
If growth doesn’t compensate for shrinking working population, you’ll be fucked. Somone has to work so you have your retirement.
Why not make billionaires an illegal thing. Poof! You have money for retirement for everyone
Money isn’t the issue in the end, the issue is that you still need enough people in working age so that you can use the money to get the goods and services that you need as a retiree.
If a large number of people retire without finding any young successor, services just become more and more inaccessible. Like e.g. if there are not enough doctors in your area because many of them retired, you won’t get treatment even with money, because the capacity just isn’t enough anymore to treat everybody. If a car shop closes down because the mechanic retires, you cannot get your car repaired there any longer, even with a lot of money, and so on…
An old society means that the area decays, more and more places close down or cannot get maintained any longer. And money doesn’t help because numbers in a bank account don’t do the real work. There are already a few old regions around the globe where this can be seen
Finally somone who gets it. It’s like economic 101 in school: Money is fundamentally worthless. It can only buy as much as the economy is able to produce
But what about the orphan grinder? Wont somebody think of the orphan grinder?
cannon fodder for the military.
The machine needs cogs!
Become unfuckable.
Way ahead of you.
I can’t think of anything more irresponsible and selfish than procreation in the 21st century. Why would anyone want to end their own life and subject themselves to the stress of ensuring their craft human survives and becomes a relatively average coal miner.
I’m not going to fault someone who has the means to provide for a child for making that choice. It’s a very personal one, just as not having a child is.
Voting Republican.
Touché
I make it my personal responsibility in life to constantly bring up the necessity of immigration as the solution to age disparity and population decline. There are working people. There are as many as you could ever need, tens of millions, perhaps hundreds. It’s never going to be an issue which can’t be solved with immigration.
I don’t see how this is a solution so much as delaying the problem for future generations to deal with. What happens when the countries the immigrants are coming from start to face the same issue (if it isn’t happening for them already?) It’s basically the population equivalent of the “one more lane bro” philosophy.
It is absolutely happening already. Many of those countries are experiencing issues with being below replacement and a hollowing out of their workforce at the same time. For many, they have gotten old before they got rich, which will make further advancements difficult.
Dude, immigration is the root cause for a whole range of problems if not done correctly. See prime example germany.
This is the first time I hear this on Lemmy. Usually I hear it on Reddit and if I ask that person questions, they say something like “I saw a black on the bus yesterday and he picked on a lady”
Germany’s a pretty amazing country and the only downsides I’ve seen lately is the rise of xenophobic locals pushing politics to the right.
Add Canada to that as well.
I am more than willing to fix the declining birth rates in every country but nobody is accepting my offers =/
The sperm bank would
i dont think that would solve it, as only well off people can afford ivf, adoptions anyways.
Pretty sure though lemmy users produce the strongest sperm. I’m sure RFK Jr researched it or something
Tax-funded retirement is fucked, but like, who still thinks they’re having one.
other than rich people.
All retirements will collapse not just public ones. It’s called the asset meltdown hypothesis.
Old people aren’t investments
Well, with that attitude probably not.
Yay! Less humans to create less suffering!
But think of billionaires’ bottom lines!
I don’t live in the US so mostly I’m thinking of who’s gonna pay for my retirement and healthcare when I’m old.
I’m paying for the current old people’s retirement and healthcare. That’s fine, it’s the social contract we have in our nation: everyone gets taken care of and those who can work, pay a lot of tax to make it happen. If the population decline gets bad enough, there will be no one to do the same for my generation.
Oh and they populist conservatives did a pension reform so you can take out whatever you’ve gathered in your second pillar even at age 20 if you want (at which point it’ll probably be in the hundreds of euros lol) and can’t resume payments (which were matched by the government - you pay 2, 4 or 6 percent and government pays 4% of your gross income) for 10 years. Worst deal ever for most people taking it out if they want to retire at one point. And a third of the population took it out. They now have to fully depend on the first pillar (government) pension, which isn’t based on past investments at all, it’s taken from the working population’s social taxes when you retire. So far more directly affected by the population decline. I’m betting they’ll eventually forcibly fuck it up for the rest of us to pay for the retirements of those who took it out.
You understand that money is a fiction, right? It’s not even numbers on a piece of paper anymore, it’s ones and zeroes.
Fewer people means more resources per person and less damage to the earth.
The “resources” we rely on require (working) humans, less working humans means less resources. The population we have today won’t disappear all at once but when they age out of the workforce, a smaller population will not be able to support them
In other words, if we are below replacement level, we will eventually have a situation where the old outnumber the young, which means that the young have to work harder to support the old
Not if the robots take all the jobs
Most countries have billionaires pulling strings at the top.
I hate to break it to you YuckyTom but no matter how you slice it a declining birth rate means a shittier situation for you in your retirement. Most people who think about anything other than retweets and boobs care about this.
That’s an awful reason to have children.
How about “Declining birthrate means a shittier situation for all retirees” Sounds better?
I can assure you that our endless growth model will make things really shitty by the time I retire. In fact, it’s possible our endless growth model has already made my retirement irreperably shitty.
Retirement is as realistic for me as finding an actual pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. I’m going to die either at my workplace or right before or after being at work.
retirement
lol. lmao even
Ok, imagine I said twilight years.
You may not “retire” but inevitably there will be a period before you die where you are less productive and generally less able than you previously were.
When you reach this period, the more people there are being productive and paying taxes the better your circumstances will be.
Yeah, in my “twilight years” I will be kicked out in the street and die from exposure either way
if people make it that far.
lol twilight years. Us millennials are all dying before 60.
The more people there are being productive, the better off the billionaires will be. You are going to be fucked regardless.
Sure but aren’t you interested to know that you’re going to be more fucked than previously forecast?
Don’t you want to be less fucked?
I don’t think it matters much. My generation will have to come up with a retirement plan on its own and whether the government can cover 0, 10 or 20 percent of the basic cost of living makes almost no difference to me. I expect that I will basically have to cover everything on my own or maybe go to jail for free food.
going to jail for *free food
*slave labor is free, right?
I don’t live in a third world country like the US :) Slavery is not legal where I live, no exceptions.
You’re forgetting the positive declining birth rates bring to retirement - a lifetime of higher wages. In a society with few young workers, those that can work make bank.
Unless you’ve already retired, you likely never will.
Sorry?
I acknowledge that things are perhaps more difficult than they ever have been, but “no one gets to retire” is unnecessarily gloomy.
“Fluffy, fetch ball!”
You mean suicide? That’s what I’m reading from these comments, that these people plan to off themselves.
I would call working into your 70s “involuntary suicide.”
More like:
Without humans Who would pay rent/dividends?
The oligarchs haven’t figured that out quite yet. They want to starve us out of existence, but still want to pig out at the government troughs. Where is that money going to come from when all the jobs are being done by AI and robots?
they think they can just have robot slaves or humans slaves in thier little enclaves. in almost all cases, fiction media goes, both groups end up rebelling anyways.
See that’s the neat part when it comes to tech oligarchs, specifically. They believe in TESCREAL/Transhumanism so they’re aiming to become the AI robots! YAY! /s
trying to be at end of hal9000, where it fuses with the human to become “god-like”
So far ai seems pretty horrified by them,I don’t think they will be well received should we actually create real ai.
Then we turn them off.
By the time things reach that point, it could be too late. TESCREALists are like planetary eugenicists. You know how Thiel couldn’t answer the question about whether humanity should live in that one interview? He’s not the only one. Their fantasy of what comes next will never work, but that doesn’t mean they won’t do unfathomable harm to the globe trying to make their sick dreams come true.
Their plans don’t include money like we have it today
Billionaires today will be long dead before it becomes a problem.
But there’ll be fewer workers for the oligarchs to lay off! How are they going to signal to shareholders that operating costs will be lower next quarter?
