Japanese cuisine uses certain methods and ingredients, even specific ratios and recipes, some of which are passed down generationally either within a family or in apprenticeships or in education and training programs that give official certifications, or even just OJT.
The thing is that Japanese culture places a lot of value in excellence and attention to detail. Traditional Japanese cooking is comparable to traditional French cooking in that regard (and yes, I’m aware that not all japanese cuisine is high-class traditional fare, but even a basic dashi stock or a ramen broth are things that people take pride in and pass on their recipes, complete with regional variants and a lot of subtlety and nuance).
Anyway, I lived in japan for a few years in my twenties and I traveled around and tried a lot of different regional specialties and variants on some of the classics. I also frequented a lot of chains like Sukiya, Yoshinoya, and all the different konbinis. So my description isn’t limited to fancy kaiseki-ryori in centuries-old ryokan villages. Japanese food, even the basic stuff, has a certain quality to it, which is hard for gaijin to imitate unless they train for years with a Japanese chef.
I preface this with all that so you don’t assume I’m speaking from ignorance. Since returning to the US, I’ve been disappointed with the quality of “Japanese restaurants” here. I’ve been to a couple in New York that were good. I could tell the owners and staff were Japanese by the quality of the food alone. Overhearing them speaking Japanese to each other only confirmed it.
But there isn’t much of a Japanese diaspora in my area, and the “Japanese restaurants” around me are all run by Chinese families. I’ve stopped expecting Japanese-quality Japanese food from these. Sometimes I still go just to get my fix. But it’s not the same. The ingredients are different. The ratios are off. The love and care, passion, pride, and everything else that goes into Japanese food just isn’t there, and it shows up as different tastes, different textures, different aromas, etc.
Not to mention it’s just hard to find some things here. Famima chicken just isn’t a thing here. Even Karaage is hard to find. Oden might as well not exist. All the different kinds of yakitori (quail egg, cartilage, horumon, etc.), matsuri specialties like okonomiyaki and takoyaki, taiyaki, and so much else; the little shops outside the train stations and all the smells and tastes that go along with them; so many regional dishes like motsunabe, okinawa soba, etc.; and just so much else (donburi, ebi furai, chawanmushi, onigiri, korokke, katsu curry, soba/udon shops and all their interesting toppings.). Ugh, I’m drooling just thinking about it all. But I digress.
Obviously no one shop could do all of that, but “Japanese food” outside of Japan is typically very limited in options. Some sushi, mostly westernized variants. It’s rare to find many options for nigiri, or any at all but I’ve never seen a kaitenzushi in the US. Occasionally a ramen shop (if you’re lucky, but even then the broth just isn’t right, the chashu and shoyu tamago just aren’t right; and good luck finding moyashi namuru!). Other than that, you’re probably limited to a few things listed as appetizers. Maybe gyoza, edamame, and a couple other things that are considered popular in the west.
It’s just not the same though. It’s not just the selection, it’s the quality. The ingredients, the recipe, everything is just off.
tl,dr: Japanese cuisine has a certain quality, which is a deeply cultural phenomenon, but the “Japanese” restaurants near me are all run by Chinese families, and as someone who spent years in Japan I can tell the difference in the quality of the food.
I don’t see how it isn’t considered cultural appropriation. If a white guy tries opening a Japanese restaurant people will say it’s cultural appropriation (and probably call him a weeb). So how is it any different when a Chinese family opens a Japanese restaurant? I don’t see any way you can reconcile those two things without implying that Asian people are all the same, which is racist.
about the other nationalities:
I don’t know why the picture in the OP shows the Filipino, Korean, and Thai flags. The Korean and Thai places near me are all run by Chinese people too. And there might be a couple Filipino grocery stores but I don’t know of any Filipino restaurants in my area.
Korean, Thai, and Filipino food are all amazing, by the way. I’ve been to all three of those countries too. And just like with Japanese cuisine, each one has so much variety that just gets lost in the US. They substitute a lot of local ingredients which just aren’t the same, they don’t offer dishes that seems too strange to the western palette, they tweak a lot of dishes to make them more suitable to the average westerner, etc. I’ve never had a pad kra pao in the US that even came close to measuring up to how it is in Thailand.
For what it’s worth, Chinese food is good in its own way. I don’t have anything against the Chinese diaspora. I just don’t see how it isn’t cultural appropriation for Chinese families to run Japanese or Thai restaurants.
It depends on how much they care. If the chinese people running the restaurant are just half-assing japanese food and using japanese culture for the name and clout, its disrespectful. Effectively just trying to profit off the culture. Whereas if those chinese people are trying their best to understand and replicate the culture, it’s fine.
Hot take: a japanese person can “appropriate” their own culture. If they just take advantage of their name and ethnicity, without actually learning about the culture. This is just really rare in practice because people of any ethnicity are usually forced to learn about their own culture when growing up
One of the best sushi meals I ever had was in Japan, and prepared by a Chinese chef. If he opens a restaurant in the US, is that cultural appropriation? I don’t think so. I think it’s perfectly fine for anyone to learn and embody the culinary technique of another culture. Just don’t claim that sushi was invented in China.
I am Asian. There are Japanese restaurants in my city run by white people and I don’t consider it cultural appropriation. Cultural acceptability is a wide spectrum.
If you don’t mind me asking, how much does your personal identity weigh being Asian compared to whichever specific nationality/ethnicity you are?
Sorry if that’s phrased weird. I mean like for example if you’re Korean, how much do you identify as “Korean” versus “Asian”? Or does it not matter to you?
I’m sure it’s different for everybody, and it might depend strongly on factors like generation and how frequently you use the language in daily life. But I like to ask people for their personal perspectives because it’s better than either assuming, or generalizing based on what sounds right. If that makes sense?
I know for instance people living in Asia are more likely to identify with their nationality or ethnic group, or the language they speak, rather than thinking of themselves as simply “Asian.” But among the diaspora, I’m curious to know how much it blends together into a multicultural “Asian” identity.
Cause I don’t want to be insensitive and say just “Asian” if that sounds overly reductive. But I also don’t know the polite way to ask someone what country their family is from…
Damn, I really took it to heart several years ago when I started finding out almost everything I liked was considered cultural appropriation (I always thought it was cultural appreciation, and it’s not like I was profiting off of anything, but nope I was a white dude so apparently it was a problem if the pattern on my shirt looked a little to meso-american. I just liked the shirt).
Like, people were downright cruel about it. It really killed me on the inside, just day-by-day learning all these new things that I wasn’t supposed to like, even though I had liked them for a long time. I didn’t know what to like anymore. Music, clothes, food, etc.; just crushed me more a little each day because it was so cool to gang up on the white guy I guess.
But I wanted to do my best, be a good person, examine my biases and overcome my ignorance, etc., so if I argued with it much at first I didn’t for very long and after a while I started giving up a lot of things I previously enjoyed…
Yep. There are definitely some lines though, like I would be offended if I saw Americans tattooing a moko because they thought it was cool. It’s a sacred symbol and has meaning. But wearing generic clothes, cooking food, etc, using parts of every day culture, that’s just culture spreading because people appreciate it. That keeps culture alive.
Ripping on a white girl because she wore a Hindi styled dress achieves absolutely nothing. And I never see those people attacking Koreans for wearing suits or driving cars, which are very much European culture.
I have a different take on this.
long answer:
Japanese cuisine uses certain methods and ingredients, even specific ratios and recipes, some of which are passed down generationally either within a family or in apprenticeships or in education and training programs that give official certifications, or even just OJT.
The thing is that Japanese culture places a lot of value in excellence and attention to detail. Traditional Japanese cooking is comparable to traditional French cooking in that regard (and yes, I’m aware that not all japanese cuisine is high-class traditional fare, but even a basic dashi stock or a ramen broth are things that people take pride in and pass on their recipes, complete with regional variants and a lot of subtlety and nuance).
Anyway, I lived in japan for a few years in my twenties and I traveled around and tried a lot of different regional specialties and variants on some of the classics. I also frequented a lot of chains like Sukiya, Yoshinoya, and all the different konbinis. So my description isn’t limited to fancy kaiseki-ryori in centuries-old ryokan villages. Japanese food, even the basic stuff, has a certain quality to it, which is hard for gaijin to imitate unless they train for years with a Japanese chef.
I preface this with all that so you don’t assume I’m speaking from ignorance. Since returning to the US, I’ve been disappointed with the quality of “Japanese restaurants” here. I’ve been to a couple in New York that were good. I could tell the owners and staff were Japanese by the quality of the food alone. Overhearing them speaking Japanese to each other only confirmed it.
But there isn’t much of a Japanese diaspora in my area, and the “Japanese restaurants” around me are all run by Chinese families. I’ve stopped expecting Japanese-quality Japanese food from these. Sometimes I still go just to get my fix. But it’s not the same. The ingredients are different. The ratios are off. The love and care, passion, pride, and everything else that goes into Japanese food just isn’t there, and it shows up as different tastes, different textures, different aromas, etc.
Not to mention it’s just hard to find some things here. Famima chicken just isn’t a thing here. Even Karaage is hard to find. Oden might as well not exist. All the different kinds of yakitori (quail egg, cartilage, horumon, etc.), matsuri specialties like okonomiyaki and takoyaki, taiyaki, and so much else; the little shops outside the train stations and all the smells and tastes that go along with them; so many regional dishes like motsunabe, okinawa soba, etc.; and just so much else (donburi, ebi furai, chawanmushi, onigiri, korokke, katsu curry, soba/udon shops and all their interesting toppings.). Ugh, I’m drooling just thinking about it all. But I digress.
Obviously no one shop could do all of that, but “Japanese food” outside of Japan is typically very limited in options. Some sushi, mostly westernized variants. It’s rare to find many options for nigiri, or any at all but I’ve never seen a kaitenzushi in the US. Occasionally a ramen shop (if you’re lucky, but even then the broth just isn’t right, the chashu and shoyu tamago just aren’t right; and good luck finding moyashi namuru!). Other than that, you’re probably limited to a few things listed as appetizers. Maybe gyoza, edamame, and a couple other things that are considered popular in the west.
It’s just not the same though. It’s not just the selection, it’s the quality. The ingredients, the recipe, everything is just off.
tl,dr: Japanese cuisine has a certain quality, which is a deeply cultural phenomenon, but the “Japanese” restaurants near me are all run by Chinese families, and as someone who spent years in Japan I can tell the difference in the quality of the food.
I don’t see how it isn’t considered cultural appropriation. If a white guy tries opening a Japanese restaurant people will say it’s cultural appropriation (and probably call him a weeb). So how is it any different when a Chinese family opens a Japanese restaurant? I don’t see any way you can reconcile those two things without implying that Asian people are all the same, which is racist.
about the other nationalities:
I don’t know why the picture in the OP shows the Filipino, Korean, and Thai flags. The Korean and Thai places near me are all run by Chinese people too. And there might be a couple Filipino grocery stores but I don’t know of any Filipino restaurants in my area.
Korean, Thai, and Filipino food are all amazing, by the way. I’ve been to all three of those countries too. And just like with Japanese cuisine, each one has so much variety that just gets lost in the US. They substitute a lot of local ingredients which just aren’t the same, they don’t offer dishes that seems too strange to the western palette, they tweak a lot of dishes to make them more suitable to the average westerner, etc. I’ve never had a pad kra pao in the US that even came close to measuring up to how it is in Thailand.
For what it’s worth, Chinese food is good in its own way. I don’t have anything against the Chinese diaspora. I just don’t see how it isn’t cultural appropriation for Chinese families to run Japanese or Thai restaurants.
It depends on how much they care. If the chinese people running the restaurant are just half-assing japanese food and using japanese culture for the name and clout, its disrespectful. Effectively just trying to profit off the culture. Whereas if those chinese people are trying their best to understand and replicate the culture, it’s fine.
Hot take: a japanese person can “appropriate” their own culture. If they just take advantage of their name and ethnicity, without actually learning about the culture. This is just really rare in practice because people of any ethnicity are usually forced to learn about their own culture when growing up
One of the best sushi meals I ever had was in Japan, and prepared by a Chinese chef. If he opens a restaurant in the US, is that cultural appropriation? I don’t think so. I think it’s perfectly fine for anyone to learn and embody the culinary technique of another culture. Just don’t claim that sushi was invented in China.
I am Asian. There are Japanese restaurants in my city run by white people and I don’t consider it cultural appropriation. Cultural acceptability is a wide spectrum.
Interesting. Good to know, thank you.
If you don’t mind me asking, how much does your personal identity weigh being Asian compared to whichever specific nationality/ethnicity you are?
Sorry if that’s phrased weird. I mean like for example if you’re Korean, how much do you identify as “Korean” versus “Asian”? Or does it not matter to you?
I’m sure it’s different for everybody, and it might depend strongly on factors like generation and how frequently you use the language in daily life. But I like to ask people for their personal perspectives because it’s better than either assuming, or generalizing based on what sounds right. If that makes sense?
I know for instance people living in Asia are more likely to identify with their nationality or ethnic group, or the language they speak, rather than thinking of themselves as simply “Asian.” But among the diaspora, I’m curious to know how much it blends together into a multicultural “Asian” identity.
Cause I don’t want to be insensitive and say just “Asian” if that sounds overly reductive. But I also don’t know the polite way to ask someone what country their family is from…
Yep, cultural appropriation is a myth created by white women to put down other white women. I’ve never seen it in any other circumstance.
Damn, I really took it to heart several years ago when I started finding out almost everything I liked was considered cultural appropriation (I always thought it was cultural appreciation, and it’s not like I was profiting off of anything, but nope I was a white dude so apparently it was a problem if the pattern on my shirt looked a little to meso-american. I just liked the shirt).
Like, people were downright cruel about it. It really killed me on the inside, just day-by-day learning all these new things that I wasn’t supposed to like, even though I had liked them for a long time. I didn’t know what to like anymore. Music, clothes, food, etc.; just crushed me more a little each day because it was so cool to gang up on the white guy I guess.
But I wanted to do my best, be a good person, examine my biases and overcome my ignorance, etc., so if I argued with it much at first I didn’t for very long and after a while I started giving up a lot of things I previously enjoyed…
Yep. There are definitely some lines though, like I would be offended if I saw Americans tattooing a moko because they thought it was cool. It’s a sacred symbol and has meaning. But wearing generic clothes, cooking food, etc, using parts of every day culture, that’s just culture spreading because people appreciate it. That keeps culture alive.
Ripping on a white girl because she wore a Hindi styled dress achieves absolutely nothing. And I never see those people attacking Koreans for wearing suits or driving cars, which are very much European culture.