I want to create a hobby project and release it under MIT. I work as a developer professionally and i have some clauses in my employment contract that gives any IP to my employer. My employer is open to amending these and/or adding exceptions for specific projects. Can anyone point to guidance resources on how to formulate such exceptions properly?
// EDIT: My contract is not totally strict, it refers to applicable laws and the wording is something like ‘knowledge gained through company activities belong to the company’, which is probably intentionally vague. Also: i like my job and employer and they are open to FOSS. My only concern is whether some higherups might disagree at a later point which is why i want to get the wording right. Will not spend money on a lawyer - it’s not that important to me. Thanks for sharing your experiences so far.
CC image ref.: https://thebluediamondgallery.com/legal/employment-contract.html
Like, things you work on during your personal time, using personal resources, belongs to your employer?
That sounds illegal. I don’t know where you live but that does not sound right.
Disney is pretty widely known to have contracts like this. They basically boil down to “anything creative you do while employed by Disney belongs to Disney, even if you did it outside of working hours.” Because Disney doesn’t want artists, animators, writers, etc to take characters or writing with them when they quit, by claiming that it was created when they were off the clock. That would potentially run the company afoul of IP laws (the same IP laws they lobby congress to make, and wield like a cudgel against smaller creators) if an employee took a character with them when they left.
Basically, if you want to do any personal projects while employed by Disney, you either already started them before you were hired, or you’re going to have to wait until your contract is up.
I would like to use the company machine if possible, but outside of work hours. My current contract is formulated in vague terms with references to the applicable laws (Denmark), so i’m sure it’s legal.
Bad idea from the start. Anything you make on company equipment belongs to the company. You signed and approved that. Changing that only opens up liability for the company and so even if they do approve it it will be worded against you. If you push anyway to the open source project then that opens the door for your company to attempt to claim ownership too. All around it’s a lose lose situation for you, and the project.
Coding does not require a supercomputer. Go pick up a used laptop somewhere and do the work off of that.
do you actually know this or are you just assuming this is the law in denmark? or even the eu?
I mean, I’ve just worked at multiple international companies while residing in multiple countries and each one has made me sign this. It’s a no brainer. Don’t use company equipment for personal projects.
this beeing in a contract does not mean it is enforceable. sounds like you are just assuming it is like this
edit: not to mention that the person you replied to said they dont even have a strongly worded contract in the first place like this
edit2: what i mean like it sounds like you are just guessing, and not knowing.
Enforceable is a level of risk that we can’t decide for the OP. If there is any chance of enforcement that is a chance of them taking credit for OPs work, or other financial issues. Not to mention lawyers are expensive, even if it’s not enforceable, is OP willing to pay for legal fees to prove it?
Personally, even if it’s not enforceable and they’re completely morally justified the question remains, why open yourself up to any risk at all by using company equipment when you can literally use any other computer to do the work?
oh i mean i too do like and support the advice to just not use the laptop for it
i just feel like that ~ anything made with company equipment belongs to the company ~ is not the law in denmark or in (some parts) eu, and multiple people made it sound like it is, so i just kind of wanted to know if they actually know this certainly (and your comment was most upvoted)🤷♂️
I get that. As another example, here where I live they made non compete contracts illegal, but I still sign one every time I start a new company. I assume they aren’t enforceable at all, but knowing lawyers they will argue some other loophole at me. For me it’s just not worth the risk of possibly needing to pay for lawyers
Do not use a company machine for personal projects. Anything that touches a company machine will inevitably belong to the company.
Just get a beat up old Thinkpad for like $20 (or for free, if you’re friends with the company IT folks and they’re discarding old stock) and install something like Linux Mint to get it up and running.
Don’t even use company-owned software licenses. For instance, if you want to make a game, don’t use your company’s Unreal Engine license to do it. Use a personal license (or something free, like Godot) instead.
If you use company resources they absolutely can claim ownership on whatever you create. That much I do know. Though to be fair I’m in Canada so our laws will definitely differ in some ways.
IP ownership isn’t something that you can definitively establish at the outset of a project (even if you copyright code and secure patents for protectable ideas), and wrapping your work in an MIT license won’t preclude infringement claims later on. Plenty of employers sponsor open source work, so it’s not a crazy ask, but it’s usually work that serves the company’s interests. You can ask for permission to work on a project with the mutual understanding that it be MIT licensed, and 2) once work hits a release milestone, get written confirmation from your employer that they grant any claims of ownership to you (or whoever).
If you want more than informal promises from your employer, you’ll find that a spare PC is gonna be much cheaper than the legal consult and drafting of any agreements you or they may want.
It’s common in the US Tech industry. It’s considered “voluntary” because you could always say no and find a different job, or you could negotiate the removal of that clause. Often at the beginning they give you an opportunity to list your existing obligations that would be exempted. Always read the fine print of your employment agreement.
I’m just glad to live in a country where companies don’t get to own people.