• Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
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    21 hours ago

    Isaiah 7:14 calls mary a “Almah” which is a unmarried but ready to marry woman; and the implication is virgin, which is why it was used for virgin too.

    Virgin Mary is almost certainly a mistranslation.

    The point was that jesus was the child of a unmarried couple, which was seen as bad, and yet jesus is fucking jesus.

    • YTG123@sopuli.xyz
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      9 hours ago

      Isaiah is Old Testament, it doesn’t refer to anything Jesus-related (unless you’re Christian and really love bending the text to your will).

    • lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      11 hours ago

      Isaiah 7:14 calls mary a “Almah”

      Isaiah didn’t talk about Mary or Jesus but talked about his own time. Messiah is this context meant savior in the political sense. It’s not a prophecy for the distant future, only in the Septuagint much later. But don’t take it from me, take it from Dan McClellan.

      • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
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        10 hours ago

        Frankly, I am not a scholar but a willing listener. So Dan probably knows better than me.

        But what i don’t understand about his point is the claim of mistranslation by using parthenos.

        parthenos does seem to mean the same thing as almah

        https://www.billmounce.com/greek-dictionary/parthenos

        https://biblehub.com/greek/3933.htm

        I am very willing to accept that isaiah 7:14 wasn’t talking about jesus, but like Dan says later authors do mean mary when talking about parthenos. So my point does seem to stand.

        But let’s say Dan is 100% correct, then almah got mistranslated and applied to Mary to fulfill the misunderstood prophecy and then my point is still kinda right that almah got mistranslated by Christians to made Mary a virgin.

        In short, I think my point kinda stands either way, while I might picked a bad verse to make my case and my argument and understanding was slightly misguided.

        • lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          9 hours ago

          I was reacting to the “Isaiah talks about Mary” part of your argument. I’m not a scholar either and I linked a very short video but in other contexts, Dan elaborates that the Greek has been used for a raped woman who therefore isn’t a virgin anymore but the main meaning is virgin.

          I’m not sure what your point was. I neither up nor downvoted your comment. But since the whole birth story is fabricated by arguably Christians, it either was by applying the mistranslation of Isaiah or, if the intended audience of the gospels understood it to mean “young woman”, it was an even later invention. If your point is that Jesus wasn’t the son of a virgin and never claimed to be, than sure.

    • A_norny_mousse@feddit.org
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      13 hours ago

      German uses the word Jungfrau (literally young woman), there’s no separate word explicitely defining a state of not having had sex.

      I’m guessing Almah is similar.

      But I heard a different story about the “virgin birth” - problem is I have no idea if it’s true or not. Anyhow:

      There was some sort of ritual where young women were invited to spend a night at the temple, with priests. Due to the religious nature of this, they were still considered to be virgins (“marriable” I guess?) afterwards. Quite the opposite, it was seen as an honour. Even if they got pregnant.

      So there’s your “Virgin” Mary who was “visited by an angel” to conceive.

      • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝@sopuli.xyz
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        5 hours ago

        From what I found, Mary supposedly lived at the temple from childhood as a consecrated virgin.

        So apparently she was groomed by the priests?

      • lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        11 hours ago

        Jesus was the first born. Even if Mary was a virgin when he was born, this isn’t necessarily the case for his younger siblings

        • Seleni@lemmy.world
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          30 minutes ago

          Yeah, but you have to factor in the rabid Christian belief that she’s an eternal virgin. So they have to make up all kinds of complicated explanations for how any siblings could exist.

          (According to official doctrine they were either cousins or children of Joseph’s from a previous marriage)

    • jaybone@lemmy.zip
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      20 hours ago

      At what point did the mistranslation occur? There have been many translations.

        • Valmond@lemmy.world
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          20 hours ago

          My bet is it’s to weed out dissidents, question the obvious fake bullshit and we can cut your head off before you become an opposition leader or something. They did burn and torture so many people because of this.