There are a lot of bad answers or misunderstandings about credit scores in this thread.
FICO Credit scores measure exactly one thing: How good are you at regularly paying on debt over time? Thats it.
There are some other companies that take your FICO score and make their own determinations from it, but those are not the intended purpose of a FICO score.
ANON is also saying “x raises” or “y lowers” but he’s missing one other part. Some of those raises and lowers are temporary meaning for a couple of months only, and those don’t have years long impacts.
Most of the big moving pieces are publicly published right on the FICO website too, so you don’t have to guess:
So lets look at ANONs complaints through the lens of what FICO scores address:
Using credit lowers your score
I’m assuming ANON means “using a portion of an already established credit line.” We can see in the chart that this would increase the red segment of the FICO score. FICO assumes the closer you get to your maximum credit availability, the more you’re being squeezed financially reducing your ability to pay on all of your debts. From a lender’s perspective, if your debts are piling up, then lending you more is a higher risk.
Not using credit lowers your score
If ANON means “using zero credit” then, yes, ANON wouldn’t have a recent history of paying on debt then the Payment History section of the graph would be thin or empty. From a lender’s perspective, if you haven’t paid on any debt in the last 6 months, how do they know you still have the ability to do so if you want credit right now?
Paying back late lowers your score
Absolutely! Its violating the very purpose FICO is made to measure: How good are you at regularly paying on debt over time?
Paying back early lowers your score
This one is a yes or no depending on what scenario ANON is talking about. Paying back a credit card early DOES NOT lower your score. In fact, it would likely RAISE your score. Paying back an installment loan, lets say for a car, early can lower your score, but not because its early, but because the load will disappear. Without a loan to pay on, you will have less recent history of paying on an installment loan for a car, and 6 months from now a lender may not know if you still have the ability to do so, so you score falls.
Even checking your score lowers your score.
ANON checking ANONs score DOES NOT lower your score. ANON allowing a lender to do a hard pull check does lower the score, but only a small amount 10-20 points and this is temporary about a month or two. Further, do several hard pulls at once, they don’t each lower by 10 or 20 points. If you do the pulls close together (within a week or two) it will be only the temporary lowering for a month or two. From a lender’s perspective if you’re reaching out for new lines of credit, it means you’re indicating you’re about to take on more debt which could affect your ability to pay on further new debts.
Taking out loans lowers your score
Temporarily, yes, but over time this can grow your score if its in a different loan type or length.
Paying back loans lowers your score
Yes and no, circumstances depending. If you pay back that one loan type lets say a car loan, and you have have no other installment loans, then you will have no more recent history of paying on any installment loans. However, if you have a mortgage which is another type of installment loan, you’ll take no hit for paying back the car loan as you will continue to have a recent payment history of paying on installment loans. You could take a hit because a nearly paid off loan looks good for the “Amounts owed” component of the score, but you could use a trick like getting a credit card of the same credit line (and not charge anything on it) to avoid that if you really need to.
Not taking out loans lowers your score
Not quite true. Having no recent payment history means a lower score, but it you already have some type of loan or credit you pay on every month, not taking out more loans will not hurt your score.
One final thought I really really want to dispel: YOUR FICO SCORE IS NOT INCREASED BY PAYING INTEREST ON CREDIT CARD DEBT!
Try everything you can to avoid carrying credit card debt into next month. Interest rates are crazy high and it does nothing to help you. If you put a purchase on a credit card, make sure to pay the full statement balance every month. If you do this, you’ll pay zero interest on any credit card purchases.
Having said that, it’s hard not to feel that these rules have been semi purposefully left vague so that people take the wrong actions that will cost them extra money
To add on-top of that, I feel like this system, and most systems around this, are all setup to work great for the rich and the “providers” and just plain less good for us. It’s almost like a casino in that the house always wins
Having said that, it’s hard not to feel that these rules have been semi purposefully left vague so that people take the wrong actions that will cost them extra money
This sounds like perhaps you believe this is an intentionally convoluted process designed to trap people. Like it is a set of financial gymnastics that borrowers must learn and perform before getting a loan.
I don’t think thats the case or the origin. I think its much more likely that, prior to FICO scores, lenders went looking at people that successfully pay on debt and then started analyzing those borrowers choices. They found those that were successfully followed a set of behaviors, and then Fair Isaac (the company behind FICO) created a FICO score (there are actually a whole bunch of different FICO scores) baking in those behaviors.
I will admit that companies that have no business using credit scores are now using them for various other aspects of life, but that wasn’t the intent for FICO scores to begin with from the outset.
To add on-top of that, I feel like this system, and most systems around this, are all setup to work great for the rich and the “providers” and just plain less good for us. It’s almost like a casino in that the house always wins
The truly rich likely don’t have to deal with FICO scores as the lending products they’re using are asset based anyway. I will say that this system is NOT designed to help borrowers. Its not meant to hurt them, but its certainly to let lenders know who has a better chance of servicing a loan or not.
I mean, the rule is to not carry a balance, make payments on time, and don’t borrow more than you can pay back. They aren’t very cagey about those rules. The exact ways particular actions impact your score isn’t relevant to the best practices.
There’s a lot wrong with the credit industry, but being upfront about payment practices really isn’t a problem.
I buy all my phones off eBay from reputable resellers. There are plenty that make a living at refurbishing phones, rate each one on a scale, post pics of the phone you will receive. I pay around $120 for mine, $180 if it’s a bangin’ deal and I really want that unit.
But, even assuming 2022 savings levels… that’s half the population that would need their savings to multiply by at least a factor of ~x42.5, to be able to afford the average used car, without financing.
… You are wildly, incredibly out of touch.
Sure, yes, its technically possible, technically doable, in approximately the same way that it’s technically possible and doable that I could become a millionaire by the end of 2026.
Yep, its a poverty trap to finance a car.
Correct.
… and that is the only viable choice for people in car centric, car dependent American, people who don’t have thousands to tens of thousands of dollars in savings, which is the vast majority of people.
In conclusion: America is a poverty trap.
… Metric had a song about this, what, nearly two decades ago?
The average cost of a car is wildly skewed by luxury models and the absurd prices of new cars. The market has gotten more expensive, so it is more difficult to find reliable cars in the sub 5k range, but under 10k is possible. It’s possible to save a few hundred bucks a month and get progressively better cars without financing them, because depreciation isn’t significant at the low end of the market.
That is what I have done, I don’t like that debt either and some cunt at the bank getting 2/3rds of my housing expenses is only slightly better than a wanker of a landlord getting all of it.
That is a horrible tldr and completely against the precise and accuracy focused spirit of the poster. Very disingenuous.
A better tldr is lenders are looking at your current and past ability to pay your current, past, and predicted debt and sudden changes to the inputs make sudden changes to the point value, but that smooths out over a relatively short time frame on the scale of your life.
Nothing in that message has anything to do with better wages.
nah, no lender gives a fuck about your financial situation, certainly not in america.
bankstreet turned boom and bust investing into an science, nothing has changed there.
for the overwhelming majority of people all debt is a trap, for everyone else…it’s still a trap, just a useful one.
It’s not really a trap, it’s how our current society pools resources to make big things happen. Obviously you can make big things happen through authoritarian means (like pyramids) but in a less authoritarian society, which I think everyone except the lemmy ml folks would say is good, the way you make big things happen is through borrowing money at the lowest possible interest rate. There’s a reason the fed rate is such a critical, newsworthy figure in our society – not just for the us but for many countries.
That’s not to say there’s not a better way. It’s also not to say that credit scores are particularly related. But it’s not a trap.
Thank you, holy shit, I get so frustrated seeing the most obviously-disproven misconceptions flying around even communities that purport to be savvy, lol.
Though one thing you didn’t mention that I think always should be: re credit card, don’t pay SO early that the agencies never see that you borrowed in the first place. In other words, wait until at least your statement date to pay your card (off, ideally). It’s your statement balance that gets reported, so if you pay before the statement cycle ends, the agencies won’t even know that the transaction(s) happened at all. Pay the card off anytime between your statement hitting, and your due date, and you’re golden, credit score improves, and you accrue no interest.
I’m pretty sure they see everything, but the way it’s chunked up can create artifacts. Balances are tabulated monthly, but they also see your payments. A higher balance means higher utilization which lowers your score. Paying early counts as a history of on time payment and lower utilization, which is good for your score.
If there are no credit scores but there are still loans, the banks / entities making the loans have no real way to know if their loan is going to be paid back. Because of that, the loans are a lot more risky. What happens when a loan is riskier? The interest rate is higher, or people are just outright rejected.
Either or, depending on the risk tolerance of your lender.
A low limit credit card with 0 interest if you pay off in full before it’s due is a great way to build your credit score.
Just buy stuff on it you’d normally buy without credit, then pay it off ASAP. And you’ll build a reliable reputation as someone who can handle credit. Just don’t spend more than you can pay off by the time it’s due.
There are a lot of bad answers or misunderstandings about credit scores in this thread.
FICO Credit scores measure exactly one thing: How good are you at regularly paying on debt over time? Thats it.
There are some other companies that take your FICO score and make their own determinations from it, but those are not the intended purpose of a FICO score.
ANON is also saying “x raises” or “y lowers” but he’s missing one other part. Some of those raises and lowers are temporary meaning for a couple of months only, and those don’t have years long impacts.
Most of the big moving pieces are publicly published right on the FICO website too, so you don’t have to guess:
source
So lets look at ANONs complaints through the lens of what FICO scores address:
I’m assuming ANON means “using a portion of an already established credit line.” We can see in the chart that this would increase the red segment of the FICO score. FICO assumes the closer you get to your maximum credit availability, the more you’re being squeezed financially reducing your ability to pay on all of your debts. From a lender’s perspective, if your debts are piling up, then lending you more is a higher risk.
If ANON means “using zero credit” then, yes, ANON wouldn’t have a recent history of paying on debt then the Payment History section of the graph would be thin or empty. From a lender’s perspective, if you haven’t paid on any debt in the last 6 months, how do they know you still have the ability to do so if you want credit right now?
Absolutely! Its violating the very purpose FICO is made to measure: How good are you at regularly paying on debt over time?
This one is a yes or no depending on what scenario ANON is talking about. Paying back a credit card early DOES NOT lower your score. In fact, it would likely RAISE your score. Paying back an installment loan, lets say for a car, early can lower your score, but not because its early, but because the load will disappear. Without a loan to pay on, you will have less recent history of paying on an installment loan for a car, and 6 months from now a lender may not know if you still have the ability to do so, so you score falls.
ANON checking ANONs score DOES NOT lower your score. ANON allowing a lender to do a hard pull check does lower the score, but only a small amount 10-20 points and this is temporary about a month or two. Further, do several hard pulls at once, they don’t each lower by 10 or 20 points. If you do the pulls close together (within a week or two) it will be only the temporary lowering for a month or two. From a lender’s perspective if you’re reaching out for new lines of credit, it means you’re indicating you’re about to take on more debt which could affect your ability to pay on further new debts.
Temporarily, yes, but over time this can grow your score if its in a different loan type or length.
Yes and no, circumstances depending. If you pay back that one loan type lets say a car loan, and you have have no other installment loans, then you will have no more recent history of paying on any installment loans. However, if you have a mortgage which is another type of installment loan, you’ll take no hit for paying back the car loan as you will continue to have a recent payment history of paying on installment loans. You could take a hit because a nearly paid off loan looks good for the “Amounts owed” component of the score, but you could use a trick like getting a credit card of the same credit line (and not charge anything on it) to avoid that if you really need to.
Not quite true. Having no recent payment history means a lower score, but it you already have some type of loan or credit you pay on every month, not taking out more loans will not hurt your score.
One final thought I really really want to dispel: YOUR FICO SCORE IS NOT INCREASED BY PAYING INTEREST ON CREDIT CARD DEBT!
Try everything you can to avoid carrying credit card debt into next month. Interest rates are crazy high and it does nothing to help you. If you put a purchase on a credit card, make sure to pay the full statement balance every month. If you do this, you’ll pay zero interest on any credit card purchases.
In other words, Anon is right on every point? Honestly, I thought some were exhaggerations. But thanks for confirming each and every.
My god, I want to write some things up but you NAILED it.
One thing I’ll back you on, one’s credit score can bounce in a month or three. No big deal. Learn how it works, work the system.
Great write-up, thanks!
Having said that, it’s hard not to feel that these rules have been semi purposefully left vague so that people take the wrong actions that will cost them extra money
To add on-top of that, I feel like this system, and most systems around this, are all setup to work great for the rich and the “providers” and just plain less good for us. It’s almost like a casino in that the house always wins
This sounds like perhaps you believe this is an intentionally convoluted process designed to trap people. Like it is a set of financial gymnastics that borrowers must learn and perform before getting a loan.
I don’t think thats the case or the origin. I think its much more likely that, prior to FICO scores, lenders went looking at people that successfully pay on debt and then started analyzing those borrowers choices. They found those that were successfully followed a set of behaviors, and then Fair Isaac (the company behind FICO) created a FICO score (there are actually a whole bunch of different FICO scores) baking in those behaviors.
I will admit that companies that have no business using credit scores are now using them for various other aspects of life, but that wasn’t the intent for FICO scores to begin with from the outset.
The truly rich likely don’t have to deal with FICO scores as the lending products they’re using are asset based anyway. I will say that this system is NOT designed to help borrowers. Its not meant to hurt them, but its certainly to let lenders know who has a better chance of servicing a loan or not.
I mean, the rule is to not carry a balance, make payments on time, and don’t borrow more than you can pay back. They aren’t very cagey about those rules. The exact ways particular actions impact your score isn’t relevant to the best practices.
There’s a lot wrong with the credit industry, but being upfront about payment practices really isn’t a problem.
tldr, debt is a trap. only when you accept it’s a trap does it become a tool
if you want/need more $…learn the value of your labor.
For the vast majority of people the only debt they should ever get is a house.
The average person does not have to financial means to pay for a car or school without loans.
A car is absolutely doable without financing l. It’s a poverty trap to finance a car. What you can’t do is have a brand new car.
Same with phones. Buy a second-hand flagship from a couple of years ago (eg pixel 8), and use a pre-paid plan.
It’s not just a few hundred dollars saved on the phone, it’s also a few hundred per year on less overpriced contracts.
Prepaid plans have to be more competitively priced because you can switch at will.
I buy all my phones off eBay from reputable resellers. There are plenty that make a living at refurbishing phones, rate each one on a scale, post pics of the phone you will receive. I pay around $120 for mine, $180 if it’s a bangin’ deal and I really want that unit.
https://caredge.com/guides/used-car-price-trends-for-2025
https://moneyzine.com/personal-finance/savings-statistics/
… that’s as of 2022.
Its worse now, considerably.
But, even assuming 2022 savings levels… that’s half the population that would need their savings to multiply by at least a factor of ~x42.5, to be able to afford the average used car, without financing.
… You are wildly, incredibly out of touch.
Sure, yes, its technically possible, technically doable, in approximately the same way that it’s technically possible and doable that I could become a millionaire by the end of 2026.
Yep, its a poverty trap to finance a car.
Correct.
… and that is the only viable choice for people in car centric, car dependent American, people who don’t have thousands to tens of thousands of dollars in savings, which is the vast majority of people.
In conclusion: America is a poverty trap.
… Metric had a song about this, what, nearly two decades ago?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=fYbrb2YYqdo
The average cost of a car is wildly skewed by luxury models and the absurd prices of new cars. The market has gotten more expensive, so it is more difficult to find reliable cars in the sub 5k range, but under 10k is possible. It’s possible to save a few hundred bucks a month and get progressively better cars without financing them, because depreciation isn’t significant at the low end of the market.
How to skip steps 2-4?
Pay cash for a car that runs. You aren’t getting a loan without income in the first place.
That is what I have done, I don’t like that debt either and some cunt at the bank getting 2/3rds of my housing expenses is only slightly better than a wanker of a landlord getting all of it.
That is a horrible tldr and completely against the precise and accuracy focused spirit of the poster. Very disingenuous.
A better tldr is lenders are looking at your current and past ability to pay your current, past, and predicted debt and sudden changes to the inputs make sudden changes to the point value, but that smooths out over a relatively short time frame on the scale of your life.
Nothing in that message has anything to do with better wages.
nah, no lender gives a fuck about your financial situation, certainly not in america. bankstreet turned boom and bust investing into an science, nothing has changed there.
for the overwhelming majority of people all debt is a trap, for everyone else…it’s still a trap, just a useful one.
It’s not really a trap, it’s how our current society pools resources to make big things happen. Obviously you can make big things happen through authoritarian means (like pyramids) but in a less authoritarian society, which I think everyone except the lemmy ml folks would say is good, the way you make big things happen is through borrowing money at the lowest possible interest rate. There’s a reason the fed rate is such a critical, newsworthy figure in our society – not just for the us but for many countries.
That’s not to say there’s not a better way. It’s also not to say that credit scores are particularly related. But it’s not a trap.
Thank you, holy shit, I get so frustrated seeing the most obviously-disproven misconceptions flying around even communities that purport to be savvy, lol.
Though one thing you didn’t mention that I think always should be: re credit card, don’t pay SO early that the agencies never see that you borrowed in the first place. In other words, wait until at least your statement date to pay your card (off, ideally). It’s your statement balance that gets reported, so if you pay before the statement cycle ends, the agencies won’t even know that the transaction(s) happened at all. Pay the card off anytime between your statement hitting, and your due date, and you’re golden, credit score improves, and you accrue no interest.
I’m pretty sure they see everything, but the way it’s chunked up can create artifacts. Balances are tabulated monthly, but they also see your payments. A higher balance means higher utilization which lowers your score. Paying early counts as a history of on time payment and lower utilization, which is good for your score.
https://www.chase.com/personal/credit-cards/education/basics/should-you-pay-off-credit-card-early
Also worth mentioning: what’s the alternative?
If there are no credit scores but there are still loans, the banks / entities making the loans have no real way to know if their loan is going to be paid back. Because of that, the loans are a lot more risky. What happens when a loan is riskier? The interest rate is higher, or people are just outright rejected.
Either or, depending on the risk tolerance of your lender.
A low limit credit card with 0 interest if you pay off in full before it’s due is a great way to build your credit score.
Just buy stuff on it you’d normally buy without credit, then pay it off ASAP. And you’ll build a reliable reputation as someone who can handle credit. Just don’t spend more than you can pay off by the time it’s due.
And the likelihood is that the people who are outright rejected will follow unfortunate patterns.
Your comment is a blessing, thank you for the significant effort <3
Excellent summary, and thank you for the bold section on paying credit card interest. I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard that myth.