It’s hard to reach orgasm if the phone is ringing constantly. He can’t keep you from cheating, but he can keep you from enjoying it.
silent mode
Vibration mode
tears into orgasms 🥵
I’m trying to keep the line busy to reduce the number of booty calls you can do.
it’s not cheating if I’m poly and my gfs are into it
this, honestly, monogamy is creepy. Only I’m allowed access to your body!!! My concent overrides my partners concent when it comes to her body.
Tf is that?
Quality shitpost reply, I think people forget what community they’re in here.
sadly, not a shitpost, I see monogamy as unethical. relationships aren’t sports, aren’t property, you cannot “cheat” to win, it makes no sense.
lying is a problem.
if my partner came from a conference and told me she got railed by half the conference attendants I’ll be glad she enjoyed herself. and if she wouldn’t trust me to tell the truth it means there was no relationship to begin with as there’s no trust.
no idea why most people are obsessed with controlling their partners genitals.
In that case I rescind my vote. Also 🖕
Damn, I’m willing to talk, been honest in all the threads that this conversation has spawned.
I get that it is an unpopular opinion, but still. not like I insulted you.
I even made sure to clarify that it wasn’t a troll opinion, because I value honesty.
How is consensual monogamy unethical?
Like really, you seem to genuinely hold the opinion you do, please explain to me how two people mutually agreeing to trust, support, love and fuck just each other … how is that unethical?
Yes, of course historically the concept is full of examples of other practices that get attached to it that are definitely harmful and bad.
Yes, there absolutely are a good deal of people who force monogamy on others as a means of control, who are hypocrites that don’t even follow the same rules or standards they impose on others.
But how is it inherently unethical for a fair and mutual relationship between just two people to exist?
Some people are into open relationships, ENM, polycules, just being a single stud or unicorn, etc.
Some people, arguably most people, either strongly prefer or can only emotionally handle having a single serious romantic relationship with one other person at a time.
The entire thing about cheating in a monogamous relationship is that it is lying, it is a massive breach of trust and respect.
If everyone involved is informed and onboard with expanding the relationship, that’s one thing… cheating is another.
For quite a lot of people, its not primarily that they want to posses or control their partner’s genitals.
Its that they want to be able to very thoroughly trust and relate to a single other person, to be the sole person that their partner also sees that way.
For these kinds of people, if their partner asked to open up the relationship, and they weren’t comfortable with it, they’re totally able to just realize at that point that their partner doesn’t want what they want, and just end the monogamous relationship, let their now former partner go pursue what they want.
So… how is this unethical?
I appreciate you reply.
First of all, monogamy is based on old property laws, on normarivity, and enforced by states/religions. that alone should be a red flag (not inherently wrong though).
I just think that relationships are only the matter of the people within it.
Boundaries are okay, but shouldn’t be used to control people. I might have a boundary against eating pork, and it would be unethical and a severe breach of trust if my partner cooked pork and served it to me without telling me that it is pork. however, I can’t impose a boundary on them not eating pork. if I was severely allergic and it is a health concern, I can envision a “no pork at home” rule. but if my boundary is “You cannot have it” then that isn’t a boundary, that’s control. If my partner has bacon in a bruch with their friends, she isn’t breaking a boundary of mine I am not involved in there.
I hope that at least clarifies my view.
and that is besides the baggage that monogamous relationships come with pre build expectations and are assumed to be to “correct” form by states and society.
BTW, I also disagree with many issues that comes with ENM, and I personally side with relationship anarchy. which is an alternative poly philosophy. They do have some interest concepts, like the relationship smorgasbord, where partners get yo define what their relationship should be like, rather than accepting the societal standards.
And I appreciate your reply, though I do disagree.
(and for what its worth, i didnt downvote you)
I follow your food allergy metaphor, but this makes sense analogously only if you essentially do not view sex as any more sacred, or complex and meaningful, than food… you view it only as basic human need that is not entwined with the very emotional structure of a relationship.
Say that you’re both ostensibly members of a religion that forbids eating pork, or you’re both fairly hardcore vegans, and you in particular are also allergic to pork.
If your partner goes out and eats pork, away from you, yes this is not literally directly harmful to you, but it betrays the values that you both ostensibly claim to believe in.
Furthering the analogy, the partner could just say they’re not a member of that religion, or they’re not a vegan, or they have different interpretations of the concepts of those… and then you could say:
‘well, the beliefs that I have are important to me, and I thought that you had those same beliefs, and that they were important to you to… so if you do not have those beliefs, we should probably not be a couple.’
So, you have clarified your line of thinking, your preference or worldview or what you want to call it, but you have not explained how the preference or worldview that I explained is unethical.
I don’t inherently think that ENM or poly or relationship anarchy are inherently impossible to do ethically… I think they are difficult to do ethically, without causing a ton of drama, a lot of emotional distress and complexity… but i do not think they are just de facto unethical in concept.
I do agree with you that monogamous relationships very often are problematic in that they come with baggage by way of people having unstated assumptions of what the roles and rules are.
But this can be solved with forthright communication and actually discussing with the partner what those roles and rules are or should be.
That goes the same for nonmonogamous relationships, they’re just inherently more complex as they involve more people.
Tons of people are, imo, not emotionally mature enough, not honest enough with themselves, do not have the communication skills required to be in any kind of a serious relationship, monogamous or otherwise.
open and honest communication is key in every relationship, from just friends and aquintances to romantic/sexual partners. Why do you think its hard to make those relationships ethical? you say it isn’t impossible but still consier them inherently difficult to do so ethically?
Bro just loves to ragebait. You can be perfectly happy like that, doesn’t mean monogamy is unethical.
the unethical bit is that is it the social expectation and default, pushed by states and religions. so much so that the alternative has to include “ethical” in the name. why? why is polygamy considered inherently unethical? because the state and churches push monogamy as the acceptable form of relationships.
Also, I get how going against the mainstream might be indistinguishable from rage baiting. however, that is not my intention. I am open about my views, and if anyone engages I’ll reply as honestly as I can. and for the most part, I assume whoever I’m talking to has good will.
I know this topic is something most people have never considered, or at least took a serious critical take on it. And I get is unpopular. Especially the “relationship anarchy” view on cheating.
My concent overrides my partners concent when it comes to her body.
It doesn’t, but everybody is free to decide whether, how and when they wanna have sex with a person again. For example not having (unprotected penetrative) sex for one to four months could be a response to a partner having (unprotected penetrative) sex with somebody they didn’t know. That’s already a more open minded approach.
you cannot “cheat” to win
You cheat if you have an agreement and you break it. That’s pretty much it. That can also happen with poly.
You can have agreements to make it easier/safer to have unprotected or messy sex.
The main reasons are probably offsprings and STIs. One is how invested a person will or has to be if a pregnancy was to happen. The other is about condoms, prevention, testing and so forth. It’s also easier to judge if you only have to consider one or a low amount of people. (Not that I’ve ever had sex.)
If you have a relationship with someone who doesn’t care about STDs or pregnancy scares, then that’s on you, don’t have irresponsible partners. yhea, what they did is stupid and dangerous, but it only affects you if you concent to be with them. if they lie about it, that’s another problem, and I would consider it as them raping you as you did not have informed concent.
We use protection with strangers and test every 3 months.
byw, I talk about poly, but I personally only have bandwidth for one person, she has her dates, and I’m happy for her. and I have my heart open form other people if they appear magically in my house but I’m not actively looking for more partners. When she took a break from dating I jokes that were acidentally monogamous.
Historically it’s because of heirloom. Therefore it’s often more accepted if men cheat, because you always knew who is the mom, but not who is the dad. That somehow carried on with peoples insecurities. On the other hand I can imagine that in some places the woman are happy if the guy would take care at least about one kid.
I’m also happy with my wife doing whatever, as long as she is doing it responsibly. And I know that she is.
Yhea, kind of bullshit society still bases relationships on medieval property right.
A lot of “common agreements” are based on medical understanding… “If you don’t grow your own potatoes you have to die”
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I exist mostly without relationships. I can barely fathom living with one romantic person. If that person then was able to execute sexual acts with others on a regular basis with relative ease I dont think we’d be compatible because our lives would be too different, experiences too different.
I can imagine, however, a different scenario wherein both of us pay for professional, independent sex workers occasionally-primarily themselves that are also adept in therapeutic massage. Maybe. But still it does seem like an odd zeitgeist for romantic relationships right now.
All relationships are unique, and there are no (there are, but there shouldn’t be) guidelines on what makes a relationship real or not.
I have bad cPTSD from a previous DV relationship and I get nightmarish flashback episodes when I get in romantic relationships, so me and my partners agreed that I’m not able to have romantic relationships. so our relationship is defined by what we agreed on (look into “relationship smorgasbord”), we have intimacy, because human to human touch and affection is something I need regularly and she does too. and I encourage her to find the romantic affection with other partners. overall it’s a healthy relationship based on trust communication and care.
the notion of only one acceptable form of relationship is so primitive, based on medieval property rights and religion. build you own relationships however you want/need/able.
ps: this school of thought isnt Ethical non-monogamy, but “relationship anarchy”.
Women I have respect for you don’t do it.
you mean calling 48 times? agree, a text message is enough.
Remind you 48 times that you’re a dirty whore?
And keep the line occuppied 😈
Whatever you’re doing, what is calling 48 times going to do?
Ordering 48 separate pizzas.
Reminds me of My Very Eager Mother but at 533%
She’s back!!!
To tell you that you’re moving out?
never cheated but it got me thinking
you telling me you never used cheat codes in age of empires II?
BIGDADDY
Oh, wrong version
how do you turn this on
i mean just spit on it, really
am I the only one who doesn’t give a fuck about cheating? just be careful with std, test regularly, and have fun.
Can you imagine if your partner said you’re only allowed to eat her cooking, anything else is cheating and you are a horrible person if a coworker offered a snack and you accepted?
What you are describing is an open relationship, so both parties are in a relationship but may seek sexual pleasure elsewhere.
Cheating on the other side has a core component which is the problem, lying.
that’s what I practice and am open about it. I hate those who say they are poly as an excuse after being caught cheating. Not because of the cheating itself, but because they lied to get with someone they knew won’t want that. Therefore the cheated partner had no informed consent. And I’m not sure this is a mainstream view. but I consider informed consent as consent, and therefore no informed consent is rape.
Someone who lies about who they are to have sex is a rapist, just using conman tricks instead of drugs or force. And should be seen by society as such.
I may misunderstood what you mean, but from what I got I disagree.
A person who cheates on their partner may have done psychological harm because of their lie, but no rape happened, since both people engaging in the sexual activity consented to it. Although the partner likely is against it, they are not a party to this activity and therefore their consent or non consent does not matter, at least as it depends on if this action can be considered rape.
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Imagine you have a relationship where one of the rules each person is expected to follow is “Do not have sex with other people.” You both agreed to it. Then you find out the other person broke it. Trust is gone.
This would be different than someone saying “Hey, I know we agreed to this rule, but can we revisit that?” and having a grownup discussion about ENM alternatives, where someone has the opportunity to say that is a dealbreaker for them or declare boundaries that make this OK with them.
Nonmonogamy is cool if everyone is aware and onboard. Fuck cheaters. If you’re going to claim monogamy without actually being monogamous, don’t enter into a relationship on those terms and save everyone the grief/waste of time/psychological damage.
i find such rule to be inherently controlling and coercive. and used to punish abused and neglected partners who find affection elsewhere but can’t leave their relationship due to coersion or fear of homelessness.
Cheating like that should be like “we agreed were both in a diet, but I had a donut that someone brought to the office”, not “you are inherently a horrible human being who deserves to be shamed and hated for seeking human connection”.
If two parties agreed to it under no sense of duress then anyone who betrayed the mutual trust required is making a selfish choice.
If your feelings toward the agreement change you need to have a discussion with the other person.
You can say they’re antiquated for agreeing to it, you can even say that it’s an unrealistic expectation but if it’s consensually agreed to it’s about trust in your partner’s word
I would never agree to those terms, so they don’t apply to me.
the problem is that society, states, and religion pushes those standards as if they are the only correct form of relationships. they are arbitrary rules based on ancient forms of control, where women were seen as free household labor and baby factories.
I empathize. Women are absolutely coerced into a role by modern society a habit we are sadly falling back into and that is horrible.
However, to say that no two people wish for a monogamous relationship and that trust ultimately doesn’t matter is a step too far for me. But I understand why someone would feel that way.
I too have seen people trapped in a loveless marriage.
still agree with that. it’s a stupid standard that hurts and shackles people rather than help them
so many loving relationships are torn because an affair, even an emotional one, even if one partner does noting but just develops feelings (100% out of their control), or worse, jealousy. all because monogamy is the standard.
ask elder people who were married through most of their lives and they all have stories of those hardships and how it hurt them.
wouldn’t it be nicer and simpler of cheating was viewed with the same severity as cheating in a diet? rather than being a devastating blow to a relationship and might even lead to severe social punishment?
We are animals we need connections and we aren’t always in control regarding what connections form.
So am I correct in saying under your framework monogamy can never be chosen freely? Or would it be at more accurate to say that if it was chosen it’ll be chosen via action and not agreement?
Then don’t enter into relationships where that’s a rule, or negotiate alternatives 🤷♂️
I’m not going to say there aren’t circumstances where cheating is understandable, but it’s still a bad thing to do, even in the scenario you describe. Taking the abused and neglected cheating partner’s perspective - what happens when your partner finds out? What happens when someone else finds out and uses this information to blackmail you? Are you really going to be better off than you would’ve been making and executing an escape plan instead?
Cheating almost always outs. Everyone thinks they’re going to be the exception, but by definition few are. If you’re unhappy in your relationship, either get all people in the relationship onboard to start addressing that, or leave. If leaving is going to create problems, prepare in advance to address those problems. IMO you’ll be better off for it v. cheating.
you’ve never been in an abusive relationship and it shows. Ideally no one should ever be in one.
I hope it’s ok if I copy pase a reply I did to someone else, but I’m getting a lot of replies and there’s no point in writing the same thing twice:
I would never agree to those terms, so they don’t apply to me.
the problem is that society, states, and religion pushes those standards as if they are the only correct form of relationships. they are arbitrary rules based on ancient forms of control, where women were seen as free household labor and baby factories.
Don’t mind the copy-paste at all, and I happen to (more or less) agree with the statement as is.
My counterpoint is despite these pressures, it is something you do not have to accept for yourself, but not at the expense of violating the trust of someone you promised you’d be monogamous with. You can be poly, you can swing, you can have mistresses/whatever the masculine equivalent word is, whatever. But you have to be honest in your romantic/sexual dealings, so people can make choices that are appropriate for them with a full understanding. And if you are in a relationship where you can’t be honest, then IMO you need to get out. Nothing good will come from staying, and much worse can come from cheating.
I will admit, however, that I have not been in a abusive relationship in the strictest sense of the term (what’s a little financial abuse and gaslighting between friends - I’d put an emoji here but can’t find one bitter enough. I understand what you mean though), and that does inform/limit my perspective.
We may need to agree to disagree here.
this isn’t a debate, just a conversation. I have no expectation for anyone to change their minds. if I have any goal, is that everyone should question the rules and norms we inherited from our societies. even if you agree with them, it’s important to question.
and monogamy in particular, is one of those norms most people just passively accept without thinking about it. If you agree with it, go ahead, but it’s important to take a moment and question it.
If it is really good cooking and I get lunch packs. (And am still allowed to cook for myself)
Damn, had no idea how unpopular that opinion was. I expect it to be unpopular, just not universally so. still, I will die in this hill. Suggest people to check out “relationship anarchy”. And I will be open about it, so absolutely no one who wants monogamous relationship ends up with me, I wouldn’t want to hurt anyone.
If you’re open about it ahead of time, that’s not cheating. Cheating is when you go behind your partner’s back with someone outside of the established relationship.
Relationships are built on trust and establishing boundaries. Cheating (as the name indicates) breaks both of these. It’s completely different from an open relationship due to one missing and very important component: consent. If your partner is okay with it, have all the (safe) sex you want. But going behind a loyal partner’s back and breaking their trust is of course going to hurt them.
Even if they would have been okay with an open relationship, you not asking beforehand will have them wondering why you hid it from them, if they did something wrong, if they’re not good enough for you, if you ever loved them at all, and what else you might be doing behind their back. Your betrayal will have destroyed their trust in you, and rebuilding the relationship will be an uphill battle if it’s even possible at all.
me and my partner are open about who goes on dates with whom. not for a sense of control, or even trust, just because we like each other and are interested in each other’s lives. And if they completely forget to tell me, not a big deal. she is not my property, I’m just happy to share time with her whenever she wants to be with me.
Just like friends, you don’t tell your friends when you hang out with another friend and what you do with them. you might if it is relevant to the conversation or they might care. but witholding that information isn’t lying by omission.
all those rules you are bringing up, aren’t rules you and your partner decided, those are default social rules enforced by religions and the state and comes from medieval property laws. you should sit with your partner and decide what your relationship should look like. even if neither of you want other partners, having that conversation and critically questioning monogamy would be a healthy conversation.
I agree with you that societal rules are mostly arbitrary bullshit. Communication and consent are the important things. Your relationship should work the way its participants all agree on.
You might want to edit your original post though. You’re probably getting downvoted so heavily because without that context it sounds like you were cheating on an unknowing partner and couldn’t see any problem with it.
I still think that “cheating” is not a big deal. I’ve never cheated in my monogamous relationships, but still, although saying that is just bullshit virtue signaling. I think my opinions should have the same weight even if I was a cheating whore.
I actually appreciate the engagement, I’m not a troll, and don’t try to rage bait. but it resulted in quite a lot of fruitful and interesting conversations.
Send the message “oh, so I guess he wasn’t cheating on me at the same time.”
