That’s an American thing, not just Google. They only believe in a free market when it’s their products and services. Theft is fine as long as it’s only them.
I’m not sure if “rival” is the right term. Seems like Google would be very happy to be a monopoly.
Please consider donating to PostmarketOS to build up a pure mobile Linux alternative that is completely free of Google’s influence. It’s the best long-term option we have.
How does this compare to Graphene? You can also be Google free using it
GrapheneOS is great, and it’s what I currently use, but it is ultimately a hardened Android fork. One downside of that is it is completely reliant on manufacturer updates to continue to support a phone. Once a manufacturer drops support, the Graphene team must also drop support, as they are reliant on the closed source GPU/hardware drivers that are tied to specific android kernel versions.
PostmarketOS is not based on Android whatsoever, it’s a Mobile focused Linux distro using the mainline Linux kernel. It uses open-source drivers for the GPU and hardware which can be maintained and supported for decades, and is completely independent of Google’s influence. However, it’s still currently rough enough around the edges that it isn’t ready as a daily driver, which is why it’d be so helpful for us to donate to it so they can hire more developers to polish it up, as they recently did to improve the audio support of Qualcomm devices.
Awesome. That’s what we need and I donate soon.
It’s still ultimately downstream of Google code, though
Graphene is Pixel only and aims for privacy and security.
PMOS aims to bring Linux to the maximum amount of devices (phones, Chromebooks, tablets, QEMU) to give them a life beyond the manufacturer’s support.
I would compare PMOS to LineageOS over Graphene.
Motorola will have a GrapheneOS compatible handset. I use a Pixel 9 Pro with GrapheneOS though, and it works reasonably well.
Technically you cannot since they basically develop Android.
Time to branch out, get more manufacturer support like Motorola and champion the consumer. C’mon graphene throw us a bone.
Im just waiting for somebody to make a plan for resistance. So far the best I have seen is going to the doorsteps of google to cry and beg them to stop.
thats not my cup of tea
But I think the real reason nobody is doing this is the paradigm of reasonability.
Nobody want to step their foot down, because that’s not reasonable. We are supposed to make it work like the wife exposed to domestic violence.
But we need to stop being reasonable and start being assertive.
But for real, I think GrapheneOS could take this stand if they’ve got the balls.
GrapheneOS uses Google hardware and depends on Google publishing the Device Tree Blob to create their software over.
By branching with Motorola, it gives them more viability for when Google decide they won’t publish the DTB anymore (it will happen).
But GrapheneOS is still dependant on Motorola not being dicks.
Most people don’t care.
Hell I’m even the “weird one” only because I tend to use FOSS options when I can.
Who the hell would use YouTube over NewPipe??
I did not know about new pipe. Thank you
Pipepipe is working better for me
Ymusic is better in my opinion, it’s not taking eternity to update subscriptions…
Brothers in arms mate. I use FOSS whenever absolutely possible. I hear about a new type of service, and my first criteria before evaluating it is, can I run it as FOSS? If the answer to that question is no, then I immediately reject that new service until I can use it in a FOSS manner. Do not pass go. Do not collect one Monero.
Is there an advantage to using newpipe if I pay for premium?
You can stop giving Evil Inc your hard earned money
It’s like 5usd for a family plan in my country. I doubt that’s making a dfference. Also, I sincerely doubt you’re not using any Google services/products in your life. Not to mention that there are plenty of "evil inc"s out there.
Re: 5 USD. Google makes most of it’s money from advertising - which works by tracking everything you do and building detailed profiles of you.
Re: I sincerely doubt you’re not using any Google services/products in your life. Not to mention that there are plenty of "evil inc"s out there. This might not be intentional, but it sounds to me like whataboutism combined with “there is no perfect option, so we shouldn’t do anything”. 90% reduction in use of google services, is better than not doing anything. Heck, 10% reduction is better. Whatever gets you started on the journey. And as a lot of people have correctly identified, it’s not easy. It takes time.
Google makes most of it’s money from advertising - which works by tracking everything you do and building detailed profiles of you.
So the answer’s “no”? Gotcha. I do try to avoid using google products and I do use extensions to try to prevent tracking. So maybe they’re making less money off of me than others? Who knows.
This might not be intentional, but it sounds to me like whataboutism combined with “there is no perfect option, so we shouldn’t do anything”.
Not even close my friend. However, you can’t fight every single battle. I try to pollute as little as possible, selfhost everything I can, don’t buy things I don’t really need, etc. Regarding youtube though? I just wanted to watch videos without ads on my tv and it cost me next to nothing to be able to do that.
Pro tip :P you can use "> " to quote text. It’s easier to read.
More privacy
The current US government is strongly in favor of corporations screwing over individuals, so we aren’t likely to get any help there. The EU and China are the only organizations that might be able to intervene. Unfortunately, they both seem more interested in the surveillance opportunities than in the good of their citizens.
We seem to be heading toward a two-tiered internet. One that will be accessible to everyone, but will be limited in terms of commerce and possibly content. One that will only be accessible to people who are willing to give up their privacy. That might actually turn out to be a good thing. Buying from the corporations could easily end up limited to the later group, which would encourage more people to shift their buying to other sources.
I completely agree.
…and as soon as OpenNIC takes their SSL/TLS Cert generator out of experimental and into something stable - we can start.
Privacy concerned people can start to rebuild the internet based on the original principles of “sharing information and ideas”, rather than " maximizing engagement ".
edit: a word
I may start keeping a cheap device that lives in a Faraday cage that obeys the corporate rules and only comes out when I absolutely need it, and then a graphene device of sorts as my daily driver. Ive almost completely de-googled otherwise.
Works, but if we think about it, it’s just a win for big tech, because we’re using their oppressive system and even buying an additional phone
I’ve done this ever since banking/financial apps became the norm. Something about carrying a small easily lost/stolen device containing access to every penny I own as well as possible credit/loans worth several years salary didn’t seem like good finsec. If it can touch money, its on my sim-less stock old android that lives in a Faraday bag for 99% of the year.
was looking at phone options recently and, honestly, fairphone has become the only choice as a daily driver. I am now absolutely fine with the limited fairphone specs as a trade-off for a device I control as my own.
will keep older phones for any corp BS that I am forced to deal with. hopefully we can legislatively minimize the interactions.
This is actually something I’ve been thinking for a while that we would have the clear net would be very limited in terms of what you could see and do. And then you would have things like Tor and I2P where everybody else would go for the free flow of information. Anyone who’s too technically illiterate to use the dark web is going to have a very, very limited experience.
Now it’s an international matter of national security. Let’s go world, time to de-americanize your tech.
Yes, but, from the article: ”GrapheneOS also says governments and banks are increasingly adopting these verification systems for things like payments, digital ID apps, and age verification services.
“Instead of governments stopping Apple and Google from engaging in egregiously anti-competitive behavior, they’re directly participating in locking out competition via their own services,” Graphene said."
Exactly, it’s not only about fighting Google, it’s also about setting a better, more open standard for the rest of the market.
Recently my bank has rolled out a new mobile app now relying on Google wallet for NFC payment. I was able to use NFC payment on GrapheneOS on the old app, I can’t on the new one. The online banking stuff still works (for now) but no more mobile payment for me. I didn’t sign a fucking contract with Google, why would I hand over my payment data to them !
I mean, a bank is a bank, they are all very similar. Unless you have an extremely good interest rate on it, I would just close the account and go elsewhere. Make sure to tell them on the way out that’s why.
Alternatively you can just transfer funds to another app and keep using their bank and use the other account as the NFC payment one but, that’s too complicated for my tastes.
You need to call your bank and the media. Word has to get out.
Yep, my own government (UK), have rolled out a digital ID app that only works with Play Services intact, so I had to jump through hoops to prove my ID so I could renew my driving licence. It’s bullshit.
Yup, unless we decouple the incentives behind these all our systems and products the end result will always be: Hey Everyone, meet the new boss! Same as the old boss!
I just made the switch to Graphene a few days ago and I found it fitting that my government’s digital id app couldn’t be installed on my phone anymore. Oh well.
Where do we find another furious person to start the equivalent of SKG, but this time against Apple Google duopoly, to get a hearing before the EU parliament?
The fact that national governments and banks require Apple / Google device attestation in the current geopolitical situation is a damn sabotage.
Well DUH…
Well, yeah, we’re well into the stage where it’s not quality that sells Google products and services.
This is the Pillaging Stage of Google’s business: as they screw both customers and users (Google’s customers aren’t their users) for short term “growth” they can only hold market share by taking advantage of market barriers to entry, networking effects and their current market share to force both customers and users to keep on using Google products and services.
Maybe the EU can slap some fines on that? It’s anti competitive and against the DMA i assume
The EU can fine them for things like this but it won’t make much difference. To provoke long term change, we need a way to block them from our countries and that’s impossible.
Let’s start by fining them ^^
They can also enforce changes if they want access to the EU market
We can’t afford to start a real war with them because they control far too much of our technology. Yes, we could threaten to block their access to our markets but what if they don’t change their behaviour? Do we go through with it? Some of their services are critical to our daily lives and just one day without a few of them and entire systems would collapse.
EDIT: Big tech corporations like Google are more powerful than governments. While they are not invulnerable to sanctions, we may lose as much or more than they do if we take drastic action without viable alternatives.
sometimes you need to be stubborn and disallow all alternatives for better solutions to be developed. trying to use the big tech shit will inevitably always end in enshitification.
grow some balls, say no and create alternatives if they don’t budge. nothing else will work. and as soon as you have alternatives, everything will get easier
I agree that it’s too early, but disagree that it would never be possible. If the EU can successfully move away from Microsoft like they’re trying to do now, then I think that will provide an excellent model for moving away from other tech monopolies.
This is just looking at the material reality of the problem. I can’t effectively threaten someone who I’m heavily dependent on without present alt. Kinda how Trump got slapped when he tried economic coercion on China. If the EU has a domestic alternative to Big Tech’s cloud services that’s in wide use and easy to scale up, the they can legitimately threaten Big Tech. That said even then that would not be enough given the newly developed dependence on US - LNG. Threaten Big Tech and the US threatens cutting off the gas supply. A gas supply shortage topples governments.
The reality is that they are powerful but if they were to become actice participants in some hypothetical war the governments could freeze and withold funds with the swipe of a pen.
There are a lot of regs around the freedom of funds and stopping that if there is a legitimate national security risk. The US is doing it right now with funds provided from the EU to purchase weapons for Ukraine. The US is not fulfilling orders because they blew their load murdering innocent children in Iran.
Their power is fragile though. The EU has sanctioned big tech in the past and will do so again. Sure they could screw us over hard but that’d hurt their profits significantly more than complying and as slaves to their shareholders they will not do that.
We shall not bow to tech twinks.
You think Google is going to abandon the EU market over timely releases of their AOSP code and the ability to install apps from outside the playstore?
No, I don’t think so. I don’t think they would ever abandon the EU market. I was thinking more along the lines of a “malicious compliance” approach, where they would make it more difficult for us to access certain services.
Please note that I am not against fining and fighting Google and other big tech companies. Sorry if my comments make it seem like I am.
This is literally their latest attempt at malicious compliance so you’re not wrong. EU will play ball for sure.
can haz dropping android, and going for a linux or hurd or bsd or ironclad kernel instead, and back to a more proper unixy userspace?
I hope every de-googled os goes completely open source supportive. And i hope people choose these os’s over google or any other closed source/centralized company
And world peace and the end of hunger too.
Sadly most people will get slowly boiled like a frog. People got comfortably numb and they want everything spoonfed. They won’t learn new things, they won’t wean off big services that make everything convenient.
The issue is that a lot of everyday services depends on Google.
If your bank decides it integrates with Google Play Services, well fuck you, your degoogled device won’t work anymore and you’ll have to switch banks or forego using your device for banking.
Every corpo is pushing hard to interwind themselves with your day to day so that they become the gatekeepers of your life and rent seek.
It’s easy for us to find an alternative because we are tech litterate, but not everyone has the knowledge to do so and it is increasingly hard to do so.
I don’t think it’s a matter of knowledge, more of mindset. If enough people even cared, banks would not enforce any changes that would require to use Google play safetynet.
Btw, banks shouldn’t even need apps. A webpage with local storage (PWA) should suffice for 99% of banking stuff.
Damn America loves itself a duopoly.
Writing has been on the wall about what would happen with no adequate balances in place to prevent this kind of takeover.
We had our chance to buy a Windows Mobile phone 🤣
Unfortunately, that’s the lesson they learned from why monopolies are bad…
European institutions and apps should be banned from employing reCAPTCHA, Google’s Play Integrity API and Apple’s App Test API, if this is how they are to function. At the same time, Apple and Google need to be sanctioned for this approach, as I am certain that it violates fair competition laws.
