- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
The products covered by the obligation to repair currently include:
- washing machines and washer-dryers
- dishwashers
- refrigerators
- electronic displays
- welding equipment
- servers and data storage products
- mobile phones, cordless phones and tablets
- tumble dryers
- e-bikes and e-scooters batteries (from 18 February 2027)
- local space heaters
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For things like these I love Europe. For things like Chat Control I hate Europe
I’m noticing cars are not part of the list, despite being smartphones on wheels
Presumably the germans must have lobbied tooth and nails against this.
Also, more and more products will let you know until when they guarantee production of spare parts (it’s also driven by regulation of course).
regulation works.
Thank you E.U. I hope you have a run of people buying and shipping products all over the world and it pressures everyone else to follow suit.
Wont do.
Why?
Exhibit A: Nintendo (Switch)
Exhibit B: LogitechI mean buying from the EU to ship to themselves. It’s late here. I’m tired.
Phones still have replaceable batteries? I have a Google Pixel 8. How do I even open that thing let alone replace the battery?
That enforcement only came into effect recently.
You can also buy kits to lift the back of glass sandwich phones, but that isn’t the most straightforward process.
Why is bicycle on the list? A bicycle is the epitome of repairability.
Edit: it got enshittified?
Derailleur hangers come to mind, some brands use a different version in the same model lineup and model year. It’s on purpose to confuse an make it difficult for the average rider to DIY.
Also Cannondale, famous for using non-standard parts (and tools) for no apparent reason.
Ok, famous to not buy them then, thanks.
I take it you never heard Van Moof bricked bikes afteir their bankcruptcy?
Edit: and thinking about ebike motors and their parts - bosch has locked down their engines real hard
Some exceptions excluded.
It’s red because there’s nothing forcing bike manufacturers to continue down the path of repairability and outside of the enthusiast community, people might not care much, they’ll just buy what’s cheaper.
Did you ever repair a bike? Its like every model has its own special tools that you need to get Something unscrewed or pulled of. (You can buy them, though)
Yes espresso, especially the well known ones(gaggia, rocket, rancilio). They can be repaired!
Well thing is this is not about whether the items are currently repairable, but whether laws require them to be.
At the moment there’s nothing stopping some dipshit from coming up with parts locks on espresso machines the way John Deere does them.
I have a super common type (in EU) of Philips water kettle. It’s a reliable machine. Unfortunately the little filter “screen” for the pouring sprout is starting to break now, after many many years of use. I can’t find a replacement. It’s a super easy to manufacture part, must be a very common “breaking thing” on this widespread device… Nope.
Philips HD4646 if anyone knows a source 🙈
https://rounded.com/daily-collection-hd4646/
Might not be the cheapest, but there are compatible listed models you can try search for as well.
Nice! I didn’t find anything. I consider buying it even overpriced, it’s mainly about avoiding buying another one just because if this
Maybe there’s a fab shop by you that could print the part? Or a local enthusiasts group or something? Never used one so no idea of price but small part, prob not too expensive. I guess finding the part spec would be the challenge. Maybe they can scan the broken one or something. I actually have no clue about 3d printing so this may not be a helpful suggestion 🤷
As far as I know, home quality 3d printing is never food safe?
It can be, but is a hassle. There are food safe filaments, there are filaments that “should be” safe, like unmodified PETG, but the issue is to make all parts that are in contact with the filament food safe; extruder gears, Bowden tubes and other guides, hot ends, etc…
I imagine that it would be a hassle for parts suppliers to certify the bajillion variations of these parts as food safe.
The filaments themselves may be food safe but that doesn’t matter. The resulting object is not food safe not because of the material but because of the manufacturing process. Printing layer by layer leaves miniscule voids and holes in-between layers where bacteria can thrive and which are impossible to clean.
Your print is safe to eat out of the first time, but is never food safe again as it can never be cleaned from bacteria in all the thin holes.
That “should be” is a risk…
I (probably but very likely) have enough micro plastics in my body. Don’t need to supply it with a nuclear blast of it.
Rather buy a close enough replacement from a reputable brand or buy a better kettle for the next time (sadly).The microplastic is the least important point when it comes to food safe products. Sure microplastic is bad, and we have no real idea about the long term effects, but there are there are things that already have effects on your health in the short term:
A lot of different plastic types release actual toxins over time, especially when exposed to high heat, since that destroys the molecular bonds. Having food or water touch these toxins is a great way to absord them into your body.
Apart from that most 3D printed materials have micro ridges and air pockets that are the perfect place for bacteria to grow. That’s probably the worst thing to have in your kitchen.
Ah, sorry that didn’t even occur to me, thanks for the info.
WHY CAN’T WE GET THIS IN AMERICA I FUCKING HATE OUR POLITICIANS
The invisible hand of the market will deal with it. Why do you hate america?
We have right to repair, you have freedom of pedophilia when you’re a billionaire.
Maybe it’s time for a revolution?
You should hate the billionaires who own your politicians instead or as well, as they’re the root of the problem.
Then make them fear you again.
Heh, the dryer stopped working at home and my spouse was bracing to buy a new one. So nice to break out the multimeter, find the issue, and 10 dollar part later, good as new.
Think of all the waste avoided by repairing a tiny part in a gigantic appliance.
Today I repaired my toothbrush after my room mate suggested buying another one that is cheaper than mine amd the same brand as theirs.
Looked up the model, iFixIt manual available, opened it, tightened the screw on the vibrating head for the motor and put it back together.
Working flawlessly again and 50-75€ (or even more) saved.Yeah this could be great. Part of my job involves clearing up fly tip, dumped rubbish, and a shit load of it is electric appliances. Most people don’t know how to use a multimeter, but you only need to know someone who does.
Pleeeeeeeease, European companies sell your products that comply with this in Australia!
i mean, you should be able to somehow get the product by buying it in the EU and shipping it to australia yourself. not sure how practical that would be, however.
you’d have to pay the shipping fee yourself and probably also get some re-seller that is willing to buy the product from within the EU and ship it to anywhere else in the world. maybe there could even be a specialized re-seller for this?
Excellebt choice of gif, from my favorite epside of Futurama. Bravo
Interesting things that are not on the list:
- Farming equipment
- Motor and electric vehicles
- Computers (including laptops)
- Video game consoles
- HVAC systems and equipment
Not sure if smart TVs fall under “electronic displays”, or if they just mean commercial displays when they say that.
yeah “farming equipment” is an important one. fuck john deere
Computers are not on it because you will never own one in the future. You will lease them.
What exactly do you think you’d be able to easily repair on a video game console?
Broken ports, replace hard drive, replace memory, no software locks so custom software can keep it alive, replace battery (on a Switch for example).
Lots of thing right to repair could do for consoles.
I would hope that the Switch falls under “Tablets”. Because that’s exactly what it is.
Well how about mobile phone, laptop or a tablet?
I’m not seeing easy written anywhere, it can still be done by experts but the idea I feel would be that its overall possible to accomplish by a third party.
Video consoles are either desktop computers with proprietary parts, or tablets with proprietary parts. There is nothing especially difficult to repair in them compared to the rest of their categories.
Farming equipment is a particularly annoying one, that and construction vehicles, are becoming increasingly locked down by proprietary software and impossible to maintain yourself. You can’t even employ mechanics outside the dealer network in some instances and it will be more so in the future.
microwave ovens…
in fact, make that all kitchen appliances.
I guess maybe microwaves are not on the list because they have big meaty capacitors that could be holding a charge still?
Considering the videos on youtube about creators disassembling and modifying them and the warnings creators like styropyro and The king of random did…I don’t think they should be serviced by the regular joe. Or the dangerous parts should be sealed of from the boring stuff like the buttons (e.g. door opener) so one trained technicians can reach it but the hurdle is big enough for normies.
not yet ! we hope !
John deer tractor lost a case that became famous in my rural area (and elsewhere). It now have to let repair shop acces the tools and allow repair on its tractors.
I take the win ! And we continue to push forward in talks, petitions, actions and repairs (autorised or else) Support and/or use open source.
Hopefully this will benefit other countries indirectly, instead of designing one repairable phone and one not repairable, should be easier to just design one.
Just like the USB-c on the iphone
So I saw that my car offered up all sorts of useful diagnostic information for self diagnosing stuff. Was very excited and went to look at it for a generic fault without having to get software to tell me what the fault is. I thought "it’s stupid it has fully functional computer display yet tells me basically “contact a dealer, but it’s safe to drive” instead of what the problem is. Then I find out that because I’m in the USA, the company keeps it to themselves…
So if they see value in treating regions differently, they will absolutely go out of their way to screw over the regions that will let them.
Okay, but the economics of doing that are different between software and hardware. It’s much more expensive to have a full second hardware design compared to just turning a software feature off in certain markets.
Car manufacturers screwed over consumers the last 10-15 years big time! Cars used to be the big thing many could fix a lot on by themselves and were proud to do so. Then they basically just said incrementally to the DIY’ers “it’s all computers now, not your cup of tea”, purposely made cars less and less self repairable and got away with it! It’s infuriating.
Computers could make cars a lot more reliable and moddable. It’s proprietary/locked-down software and hardware that’s the problem.
Do you seriously think they computerized cars to make them less repairable? That’s some tin foil hat stuff there.
They started computerizing cars to make them more efficient, reliable (ironically), safer, etc. The problem is that beyond OBDII there is no standard for diagnostics, and makers keep these proprietary.
They didn’t have to keep it proprietary, and I think in many “computer problems” the certified dealers will just replace 1 circuitboard by a new one, but it’s a part which private customers are not able to order and replace themselves
They didn’t do it for that purpose, I am saying they used the opportunity of cars becoming more digital to make them less repairable outside of “certified dealers”
Exactly, repairing your car was even a very common trope in Home Improvement, which kind of catched the average American household of that time pretty well, or so at least to TVs best abilities to generalize
Yeah, I get the impression newer cars are designed to fail just outside warranty because the car companies make more on the dealerships repairs then they do on the sale of the car.
“Hold my beer” - Nintendo, releasing an EU centric revision. Meanwhile Apple and Samsung are digging up every legal loophole to prevent the law applying to their devices.
“Hold my beer” - Nintendo, releasing an EU centric revision.
i wonder, do we know what will be the price difference between the EU centric version and the international version?
Apple and Samsung be like: “It’s not a mobile phone or a tablet, it’s a phablet so it does not fall in to any category of the devices that need to be repairable.”
The loophole in the directive is smaller phones. Smartphones go from 10.16 cm (4 inches) diagonal to 17. 78cm (7 inches) and everything bigger (up to 44.2 cm) is a tablet.
Samsung and Apple’s flagship smartphones are very close to be considered tablets but that wouldn’t save them from the requirements.
iPhones are already super easy to repair. Apple have been at the forefront of this for years.
For the downvoters who are too blinded by their hate for Apple to believe facts:
https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/smartphone-repairability-scores
PROS
- Display and battery repairs are well-prioritized, though not as well as in other (dual-entry) iPhone models.
- Torx screws secure the battery assembly in place, making replacements straightforward.
- Repair parts and instructions are available straight from Apple.
CONS
- Five different screwhead types and the continued reliance on adhesives complicate basic repairs.
well, one thing that surely is not repairable about apple is their software. you can’t fix their operating system by installing a more meaningful alternative to it on your device, can you?
I have to admit that I haven’t checked ifix scores for a hot minute and am surprised that since the iphone 15 Apple consistently beats all other big brands in reparability score. Before that of course they were bad, which is probably why people remember them that way. I like that trend, hopefully Samsung and Google also hop on that bandwaggon any time soon.
Strange that 73 other people, 30+ of who downvoted long after I added the proof, think that ifixit are wrong.
Are we talking about the same apple that invented a new type of screw to keep people from taking their phones apart? The same apple that once people could get a trilobe driver, then made it so that generic replacement screens would not work because of some protection from non-apple hardware? Then went on to make sure that you can’t use non-apple parts in a laptop?
Yes.
https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/smartphone-repairability-scores
PROS
- Display and battery repairs are well-prioritized, though not as well as in other (dual-entry) iPhone models.
- Torx screws secure the battery assembly in place, making replacements straightforward.
- Repair parts and instructions are available straight from Apple.
CONS
- Five different screwhead types and the continued reliance on adhesives complicate basic repairs.
the same apple that locks individual parts of devices to user accounts so that they can’t be used for repair?
Same Apple. Signing new parts to your device is incredibly simple and DIY now.
https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/smartphone-repairability-scores
PROS
- Display and battery repairs are well-prioritized, though not as well as in other (dual-entry) iPhone models.
- Torx screws secure the battery assembly in place, making replacements straightforward.
- Repair parts and instructions are available straight from Apple.
CONS
- Five different screwhead types and the continued reliance on adhesives complicate basic repairs.
…but only if you buy the parts new.
I wouldn’t want to be putting second hand parts in my phone when repairing it. I can’t imagine there are many second hand screens or batteries around for sale given they’re the things that are replaced the most.
Not that I’d ever want a second hand screen or battery anyway.
Not an option if you love somewhere where official parts are not for sale.
i’m perfectly fine with buying third-party components.
Super easy to repair by certified repair shops or easy to repair by people at home with minimal tool requirements?
At home with minimal tool requirements
https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/smartphone-repairability-scores
PROS
- Display and battery repairs are well-prioritized, though not as well as in other (dual-entry) iPhone models.
- Torx screws secure the battery assembly in place, making replacements straightforward.
- Repair parts and instructions are available straight from Apple.
CONS
- Five different screwhead types and the continued reliance on adhesives complicate basic repairs.
Company that rates self repairability of phones: iPhones are easy to repair by yourself using basic tools
Lemmy: no, that can’t be true because we hate apple
Not bad by the standards of modern phones, but hopefully not good enough for the new EU standards. Imo adhesives should only be used if they’re replaceable or reusable and the screws should be limited to philips and flatheads.
hard disagree on the screws:
philps and flatheads can be damaged too easily: torx or nothing!
these teeny tiny screws are really finicky and both philips and flatheads are prone to slipping, causing faster wear and easily leading to stripped screws…
any design that is inherently resistant to that is a must for small parts!
source: worked in a repair shop ;)
Sure thing, I don’t care much about the specific screw type, just that it’s a type that’s commonly available so you don’t need a unique screwdriver for each device you own.
No thank you on the flathead or Philips head screws, they get burred too easily which would basically leave your phone unrepairable.
The less adhesives the better though, agreed there. Their phones are already definitely self-repairable enough for the new EU rules.
/s?
Edited to add the single best source there is for the doubters and downvoters. Take a look.
You only need a screwdriver set and maybe some rubbing alcohol.
The past two phones I bought were not because they broke, but because they stopped being supported on apps that I need to use.
That’s also included in the directive. Manufactures will be required to provide OS updates for at least 5 years “from the date of end of placement on the market” (which means the date the brand shipped the last device of a model).
They also have 4 months to release security updates and 6 months for functionality updates see ANNEX II for all device categories.
That is actually fairly reasonable. I use a 5 yr old Xiaomi which a has 8Gb (as much as an entry level Surface or MacBook. Fuck AI) an octacore CPU, great camera, ultra fast charge, great battery etc. But I realize most people change phones every 2-3 years regardless of how well their phone works, because of “shiny new thing”
Let me guess, iPhone?
Doubtful. iPhones have the longest support of any phones out there.
Long, but not longest. Fairphone is longer.
Source?
As far as I know, nearly all flagship phones, Apple or otherwise, get about 7 years of update support (
except Pixel phones with GrapheneOS which get 14ignore; I remembered this incorrectly).The difference is, even my old phone running Android 8 (a 9yo OS) can still browse the web, run all apps, and perform fine as a phone. An even older phone running Android 4.4 can still run 3rd party apps. iPhones seem to stop working about a year after they stop receiving updates, and they don’t support sideloading (also know as running the software you want to run on the device you own).
The oldest iPhone that can run the latest iOS is the 11 from 2019. Apple is still providing security fixes all the way back to iOS 15, which goes back to the 6s released in 2015. So, somewhere between 7 and 11 years for Apple depending on what you are counting as support. As a personal experience, my partners iPad from 2017 still runs fine, though it is stuck on iOS 16 and only gets security updates.
Your Android 8 phone absolutely can not run every app lol. That’s a straight up lie that even people here won’t believe.
iPhones have the longest security update and os update plan out of any manufacturer.
Also worth noting that up until about 3 years ago finding an Android phone that was supported for even 4 years was almost impossible. Apple have been doing 6-7 years of full OS version updates and 8+ years of security updates almost since the start.
Are you sure about 14 years of support? I think Graphene basically supports things as long as Google does, due to reliance on their source code releases. Double that would be impressive.
Ah thanks, my bad; I must have remembered incorrectly. I’ve updated my original comment
Oh trust me, I’m no fan of Samsung, but I tend to value control of my devices over…whatever it is Apple does. I had an iPhone until I discovered replacing the home button myself artificially bricked the device due to DRM forcing customers to go to an Apple store for repairs. Never again
deleted by creator
Androids
Huh…I’m guessing banking apps? Those are the only ones that have ever given me problems on old Android devices
I’ll literally change banks over that kind of thing now.
Been starting to see more randomly picky apps. Based on vintage and rooted device.
Uninstalled the FedEx app, since every time I tapped on a tracking number, it would divert to the app which would promptly shame me for having a rooted device and refuse to run.
yes
I’ve read a couple stories of companies (planning to) release EU-only models there, but non-EU-compliant ones everywhere else.
The EU ones will become a lot more valuable on second hand markets…
Great in theory until companies start charging 80% of the product price for a single spare part so you’d rather buy a new product than try to repair your existing one.
This is also mentioned in the directive, and directives are legislative texts. The price may not be set so high as to deter repair.
Depends on how it’s done. If they have to make schematics and binaries available, it’s different than having to provide parts at whatever cost they’d like.
This is good.
The RIGHT to repair does you no good if the thing itself is not DESIGNED to be repaired.
It’s a start.
You can always take the next step later.
