Millions. They’ve killed millions within the last few decades and hurt many millions more.
There people care more about price of gas and some rose garden than many millions killed in their name.
Fkn deplorables have the nerve to get mad at anyone criticizing the Democrats instead of getting mad at their party for facilitating and funding a fkn genocide in front of our eyes.
I agree that the real number is higher, I only say hundreds of thousands because it is irrefutable that at least that many died, it’s horrific regardless of the exact number, and I want to avoid getting sidetracked by an argument about the details of who to count or what sources are more reliable.
“How can you possibly compare Ted Bundy to Jeffery Dahmer? So what if they were both serial killers, they both breathed air too, hEy, DoN’t YoU bReAtHe AiR?”
That’s nothing compared to the scale of death from the full-scale invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, which Obama (like Trump) chose to continue and double down on, when he could’ve stopped it at literally any time.
USAID
Is is worse to fail to prevent death, or to cause it directly? I don’t really care to engage in this game of whether directly killing hundreds of thousands of people is better or worse than failing to prevent the deaths of millions. Like, it should be clear enough that they’re both irredeemable mass murderers who nobody should be defending.
I really don’t understand your point. You think trump is not that bad compared to Obama, but yet trump did all of the same things? Also, trump didn’t directly kill them, but I’m not going to discuss whether that’s good or bad. You’ll probably say the same about Covid then? Because he indirectly killed 100s of thousands* of Americans with his policies. Last comment.
You think trump is not that bad compared to Obama, but yet trump did all of the same things?You think trump is not that bad compared to Obama, but yet trump did all of the same things?
My point is that both are bad, and we need an actual alternative. Even in an example that’s supposed to show a real difference between Democrats and Republicans, they both suck ass and they both killed countless innocent people in pointless wars of aggression. Don’t think that just because I hate Obama that I hate Trump any less, I don’t think in those partisan terms.
For 20 years, the war in Afghanistan went on, regardless of whether it was a Democrat or a Republican in office. Many congressional Democrats supported the war. Now, after pouring endless amounts of blood and treasure into it to accomplish absolutely nothing (an outcome that was clear enough long ago), it’s proven to be a total, abject failure.
Part of the reason Trump got elected was because he was able to distance himself from the absolute dogshit establishment wings of both parties. Obviously, it was a lie, which was clear enough before his first term but even more obvious when he got reelected, but people bought into. In part, because Harris, like Clinton and every Democratic nominee for at least the last 20 years, has been a complete, unabashed war hawk, and when they criticize Trump, its usually for being too friendly to “our” supposed enemies. Now, they’ve finally given up on Afghanistan, but they’ve simply shifted the theater to Palestine.
This is obviously unacceptable. It needs to end. END. Not “be reduced in intensity” or “be conducted the right way,” but to END. And that’s never going to happen so long as people show that they’re perfectly happy with meaningless token gestures, polite aesthetics, and a “kinder, gentler machine gun hand.”
It’s a fairly straight forward look at some other things they (and possibly the person I was talking to, jury’s still out on that) have in common. No value judgement.
Because the victims are mostly muslims. The Christian ones aren’t following white European Christianity, they mostly follow the old creeds so they don’t matter. They’re “sand people” and beneath the ubermensch.
Most of the USians and a significant number in the western sphere don’t even acknowledge the genocide. They’re mad at the protesters who bitch and complain about the genocide. They’re okay with zionists murdering every single Palestinian in existence. Gas prices matter more than number of innocents slaughtered.
I don’t think the idea that certain wings of the capitalist class coalesce around different capitalist parties and therefore invest in elections heavily is antagonistic to the idea that neither party represents the interests of the working class. Capitalists are not a monolith, so they duke it out electorally, but workers end up getting crumbs at most regardless of who wins at the ballot box. It makes far more of a difference for them than it does for us.
Also think it’s funny that socialists supposedly can’t read, while also reading too much. “The enemy is both weak and strong,” yadda yadda.
And yet .ml has been screeching pretty much non-stop about how elections are pointless and have no effect. And don’t flatter yourself, your silly rabble doesn’t anywhere near rise to a level of “enemy”.
I’m sorry but I’m not a capitalist, whoever wins the election will continue the genocides in Palestine and Cuba, will continue the attacks around the world, will perpetuate a failing capitalist system that does not and cannot meet the needs of the people, that will not respect treaties with indigenous nations, and will not represent the working class. Elections matter most of all to the ruling class, as it picks which wing of the capitalist class will get to rule, not whether workers benefit or not.
Doubt, the US was slowly improving relations with Cuba. A lot of that was undone in Trump’s first term. Fixed a bit under Biden, and now it’s absolutely horrible.
Quite literally there was an option last cycle that would have prevented what’s happening in Cuba.
As for respecting Indegious nations perhaps you should talk to some Natives. Biden’s term the Secretary of the Interior was a Native American. Her name was Deb Haaland, absolutely amazing woman. Under her guidance she protected many important indigenous sites, expanded tribal consultants (and made their say matter), and renamed countless places back to their indigenous names. Never before had the Tribal Nations been this respected. Now that Trump won he’s replaced her with an oil guy pushing an “energy dominace” agenda. Which means expanding the exploitation of federal lands for oil, gas, mining, and timber. He’s delisted several protected sites so their resources can be exploited and slashed tribal consultation.
And this is what pisses me off about people spreading the rhetoric you do. You don’t actually care about minorities or oppressed people in the slightest. You use their suffering to justify your own political agenda. Were things perfect? No there’s a long list of issues that we likely would agree on, but many things were clearly better for many marginalized groups before Trump and there was an option to keep those positive changes in place. Yet you threw up your hands declared both sides are the same and allowed the poor and oppressed to become worse off. Minorities shouldn’t be your pawns for political rhetoric. Fake ally
No, relations with Cuba were not improving. The Obama administration was working to undermine the Cuban political project, and both the Obama admin and Biden admin continued the sanctions regime on Cuba. Biden performatively removed Cuba from the state sponsors of terror list right at the end, because he knew it would get struck down. You also clearly have not spoken with indigenous peoples. Making token gestures is not at all the same as respecting prior treaties and decolonizing Turtle Island.
I care deeply about the struggles in Cuba, Palestine, and indigenous struggles here. I devote my time and money to organizing for a better world, because I know these are not problems that can be solved under capitalism. Minority nationalities shouldn’t be your pawns for political rhetoric. Get in the streets, get organized, and stop treating the tokenizing of minorities under democrats that then perpetuate their butchery and oppression as liberation.
Do better. Join an org, and stop defending the capitalist class and their cronies.
Token gestures? I’ve worked closely with several tribal members in my time. They appreciated the work being done under Haaland. It was putting control of Native Lands back in to Native hands and restoring treaty agreements. Real tangible improvements in tribal sovereignty. That was undone instantly by Trump.
I’m sorry about Turtle Island whichever one you’re referring to, but neither candidate would do anything about that. But we had a candidate that was going to continue to expand tribal relations and tribal sovereignty within the US. Anyone that actually cared would have wanted this to continue, but I suppose the sovereignty and rights of Native American tribes isn’t as flashy for your rhetoric
What’s necessary, and what indigenous groups have been demanding for centuries now, is for every treaty to be respected. What they need is the full right of self-determination, up to and including secession. This has been demanded. The reservation system isn’t sovereignty, it’s apartheid. You’re describing these relations the same way Zionists describe relations with the Palestinian Authority.
It isn’t about “flash,” it’s about what’s both necessary and possible. We absolutely can decolonize Turtle Island (the north American continent), but Democrats and Republicans alike perpetuate settler-colonialism. Again, join an org, fight for a better world.
So we’ve looped right back around. One candidate was going to continue to make some improvements to the lives of the marginalized, but they weren’t going to fulfill all your demands. So now the lives are the marginalized are worse off.
Thanks for clarifying which Turtle Island, I thought you were talking about the one in lake Eerie that once belonged to the Miami tribe. Which did seem far too specific
Anyway you can vote to reduce harm to marginalized groups and join an org. You should do both
You misread. You already provided the supporting evidence for my point. You proved how things became worse under Trump which is the point I was making. Doctors have only been doing that since Trump cut off oil and gas to the country.
I was thanking you for providing the supporting evidence, albeit a bit confused since you stated it as a disagreement.
I was talking about elections in general, not the US midterm elections specifically. I actually agree that the US political system is deeply fucked up and the midterms will not bring any fundamental change. But the US are not the only country on earth and an imperfect democratic system can be improved. The kind of dictatorship you people would replace it with is definitely just going to make everything worse.
How is a system based on popular councils and mass participation at all levels of government going to make everything worse? What do you think socialists are advocating for in terms of democracy?
If our .ml friends could read, they’d be very upset right now.
Tankies when you mention any democrat
They both bomb the middle east.
Did they both rape children too?
One wants to murder children, the other wants to murder and rape children. See, tankies, they’re not the same at all!
They are different enough that choosing who to vote is no brainer :/
They also both breathe air. Wait a minute, do YOU breathe air too??
What a clown-ass comment.
What’s a few wars of aggression between friends? What does it matter how many hundreds of thousands of people you kill, who’s counting?
B-but Trump bulldozed the East Wing of the White House! That’s what really matters!
Millions. They’ve killed millions within the last few decades and hurt many millions more.
There people care more about price of gas and some rose garden than many millions killed in their name.
Fkn deplorables have the nerve to get mad at anyone criticizing the Democrats instead of getting mad at their party for facilitating and funding a fkn genocide in front of our eyes.
I agree that the real number is higher, I only say hundreds of thousands because it is irrefutable that at least that many died, it’s horrific regardless of the exact number, and I want to avoid getting sidetracked by an argument about the details of who to count or what sources are more reliable.
That’s totally what I said, excellent reading comprehension, air breather.
Yes, it is.
“How can you possibly compare Ted Bundy to Jeffery Dahmer? So what if they were both serial killers, they both breathed air too, hEy, DoN’t YoU bReAtHe AiR?”
Dumbest shit I’ve read in a long while.
You accidentally a word there, mate.
I’d rather make a thousand typos than try to make a point as flimsy as yours.
What’s the Gaza genocide that Biden and Harris facilitated? Or do you think its not a genocide or significant?
How about Syria?
Iraq?
Libya?
Afghanistan?
Somalia? Yemen?
What about USian veterans?
You’re only focused on Donald. Some of us are talking about all the victims of the imperial war machine, not just 1 man or 1 party.
That’s nothing compared to the scale of death from the full-scale invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, which Obama (like Trump) chose to continue and double down on, when he could’ve stopped it at literally any time.
Is is worse to fail to prevent death, or to cause it directly? I don’t really care to engage in this game of whether directly killing hundreds of thousands of people is better or worse than failing to prevent the deaths of millions. Like, it should be clear enough that they’re both irredeemable mass murderers who nobody should be defending.
Two things can be bad at the same time.
I really don’t understand your point. You think trump is not that bad compared to Obama, but yet trump did all of the same things? Also, trump didn’t directly kill them, but I’m not going to discuss whether that’s good or bad. You’ll probably say the same about Covid then? Because he indirectly killed 100s of thousands* of Americans with his policies. Last comment.
My point is that both are bad, and we need an actual alternative. Even in an example that’s supposed to show a real difference between Democrats and Republicans, they both suck ass and they both killed countless innocent people in pointless wars of aggression. Don’t think that just because I hate Obama that I hate Trump any less, I don’t think in those partisan terms.
For 20 years, the war in Afghanistan went on, regardless of whether it was a Democrat or a Republican in office. Many congressional Democrats supported the war. Now, after pouring endless amounts of blood and treasure into it to accomplish absolutely nothing (an outcome that was clear enough long ago), it’s proven to be a total, abject failure.
Part of the reason Trump got elected was because he was able to distance himself from the absolute dogshit establishment wings of both parties. Obviously, it was a lie, which was clear enough before his first term but even more obvious when he got reelected, but people bought into. In part, because Harris, like Clinton and every Democratic nominee for at least the last 20 years, has been a complete, unabashed war hawk, and when they criticize Trump, its usually for being too friendly to “our” supposed enemies. Now, they’ve finally given up on Afghanistan, but they’ve simply shifted the theater to Palestine.
This is obviously unacceptable. It needs to end. END. Not “be reduced in intensity” or “be conducted the right way,” but to END. And that’s never going to happen so long as people show that they’re perfectly happy with meaningless token gestures, polite aesthetics, and a “kinder, gentler machine gun hand.”
The analogy that bombing poors is to the commander in chief as breathing is to normal people is probably a little more based than you meant it to be
Cool. Though I don’t know why you’re telling me since that’s not an analogy I drew.
Is there another interpretation of “They also both breathe air. Wait a minute, do YOU breathe air too??” that I’m missing somehow?
It’s a fairly straight forward look at some other things they (and possibly the person I was talking to, jury’s still out on that) have in common. No value judgement.
You absolutely did. Just unintentionally.
The Author Is Dead, you’re entitled to your opinion and whatever I may have intended is of course of secondary importance.
Why are you dismissing the genocide in Palestine as though it’s as benign as breathing?
Because the victims are mostly muslims. The Christian ones aren’t following white European Christianity, they mostly follow the old creeds so they don’t matter. They’re “sand people” and beneath the ubermensch.
Most of the USians and a significant number in the western sphere don’t even acknowledge the genocide. They’re mad at the protesters who bitch and complain about the genocide. They’re okay with zionists murdering every single Palestinian in existence. Gas prices matter more than number of innocents slaughtered.
Hell yeah, there we go. Nicely ml’d.
How else could it be interpreted? If you’re not going to answer this question, don’t bother replying.
You’re right.
All people are awful and none of them should be in charge.
are you discriminating against people that breathe oxygenated perflourocarbons?
Not at all. I always failed Chemistry though, should I?
They can read just fine, the problem is we don’t use the Cyrillic alphabet
Arabic and Chinese are also acceptable to them.
90% of political discussions in english descend into sinophobia, russophobia, or islamophobia.
Remember if you ever disagree with someone, just accuse them of being from a group that you consider it okay to hate.
Anyone who doesn’t subscribe to the genocidal neoliberal ideology is a braindead foreigner subhuman bot, didn’t you get the memo?
I got the memo about how you’re supposed to tell trans people to enthusiastically vote against their own safety. I think I missed the other one.
I don’t think the idea that certain wings of the capitalist class coalesce around different capitalist parties and therefore invest in elections heavily is antagonistic to the idea that neither party represents the interests of the working class. Capitalists are not a monolith, so they duke it out electorally, but workers end up getting crumbs at most regardless of who wins at the ballot box. It makes far more of a difference for them than it does for us.
Also think it’s funny that socialists supposedly can’t read, while also reading too much. “The enemy is both weak and strong,” yadda yadda.
And yet .ml has been screeching pretty much non-stop about how elections are pointless and have no effect. And don’t flatter yourself, your silly rabble doesn’t anywhere near rise to a level of “enemy”.
I’m sorry but I’m not a capitalist, whoever wins the election will continue the genocides in Palestine and Cuba, will continue the attacks around the world, will perpetuate a failing capitalist system that does not and cannot meet the needs of the people, that will not respect treaties with indigenous nations, and will not represent the working class. Elections matter most of all to the ruling class, as it picks which wing of the capitalist class will get to rule, not whether workers benefit or not.
As for socialists not rising to the level of enemy, the capitalist state certainly seems to disagree with you.
Doubt, the US was slowly improving relations with Cuba. A lot of that was undone in Trump’s first term. Fixed a bit under Biden, and now it’s absolutely horrible.
Quite literally there was an option last cycle that would have prevented what’s happening in Cuba.
As for respecting Indegious nations perhaps you should talk to some Natives. Biden’s term the Secretary of the Interior was a Native American. Her name was Deb Haaland, absolutely amazing woman. Under her guidance she protected many important indigenous sites, expanded tribal consultants (and made their say matter), and renamed countless places back to their indigenous names. Never before had the Tribal Nations been this respected. Now that Trump won he’s replaced her with an oil guy pushing an “energy dominace” agenda. Which means expanding the exploitation of federal lands for oil, gas, mining, and timber. He’s delisted several protected sites so their resources can be exploited and slashed tribal consultation.
And this is what pisses me off about people spreading the rhetoric you do. You don’t actually care about minorities or oppressed people in the slightest. You use their suffering to justify your own political agenda. Were things perfect? No there’s a long list of issues that we likely would agree on, but many things were clearly better for many marginalized groups before Trump and there was an option to keep those positive changes in place. Yet you threw up your hands declared both sides are the same and allowed the poor and oppressed to become worse off. Minorities shouldn’t be your pawns for political rhetoric. Fake ally
No, relations with Cuba were not improving. The Obama administration was working to undermine the Cuban political project, and both the Obama admin and Biden admin continued the sanctions regime on Cuba. Biden performatively removed Cuba from the state sponsors of terror list right at the end, because he knew it would get struck down. You also clearly have not spoken with indigenous peoples. Making token gestures is not at all the same as respecting prior treaties and decolonizing Turtle Island.
I care deeply about the struggles in Cuba, Palestine, and indigenous struggles here. I devote my time and money to organizing for a better world, because I know these are not problems that can be solved under capitalism. Minority nationalities shouldn’t be your pawns for political rhetoric. Get in the streets, get organized, and stop treating the tokenizing of minorities under democrats that then perpetuate their butchery and oppression as liberation.
Do better. Join an org, and stop defending the capitalist class and their cronies.
Token gestures? I’ve worked closely with several tribal members in my time. They appreciated the work being done under Haaland. It was putting control of Native Lands back in to Native hands and restoring treaty agreements. Real tangible improvements in tribal sovereignty. That was undone instantly by Trump.
I’m sorry about Turtle Island whichever one you’re referring to, but neither candidate would do anything about that. But we had a candidate that was going to continue to expand tribal relations and tribal sovereignty within the US. Anyone that actually cared would have wanted this to continue, but I suppose the sovereignty and rights of Native American tribes isn’t as flashy for your rhetoric
What’s necessary, and what indigenous groups have been demanding for centuries now, is for every treaty to be respected. What they need is the full right of self-determination, up to and including secession. This has been demanded. The reservation system isn’t sovereignty, it’s apartheid. You’re describing these relations the same way Zionists describe relations with the Palestinian Authority.
It isn’t about “flash,” it’s about what’s both necessary and possible. We absolutely can decolonize Turtle Island (the north American continent), but Democrats and Republicans alike perpetuate settler-colonialism. Again, join an org, fight for a better world.
So we’ve looped right back around. One candidate was going to continue to make some improvements to the lives of the marginalized, but they weren’t going to fulfill all your demands. So now the lives are the marginalized are worse off.
Thanks for clarifying which Turtle Island, I thought you were talking about the one in lake Eerie that once belonged to the Miami tribe. Which did seem far too specific
Anyway you can vote to reduce harm to marginalized groups and join an org. You should do both
Where do you people get this shit?
Doctors are having to work 16 hours a day to manually pump air into premature babies lungs because of the American embargo on Cuba.
Why are you describing the situation created by Trump? That’s the whole point that things were made way worse than they were.
Thank you for providing supporting evidence I guess
Why do you get to spout your bullshit without supporting evidence, but when I call it bullshit, you want sources?
Relations with Cuba were not improving. That’s a lie.
You misread. You already provided the supporting evidence for my point. You proved how things became worse under Trump which is the point I was making. Doctors have only been doing that since Trump cut off oil and gas to the country.
I was thanking you for providing the supporting evidence, albeit a bit confused since you stated it as a disagreement.
I was talking about elections in general, not the US midterm elections specifically. I actually agree that the US political system is deeply fucked up and the midterms will not bring any fundamental change. But the US are not the only country on earth and an imperfect democratic system can be improved. The kind of dictatorship you people would replace it with is definitely just going to make everything worse.
How is a system based on popular councils and mass participation at all levels of government going to make everything worse? What do you think socialists are advocating for in terms of democracy?
You know Cowbee cooked you good when you resort to calling it “silly rabble” instead of engaging.
Man, I feel so cooked already.
Your awareness of the situation, or lack thereof, doesn’t prevent the situation from unfolding.
I’ve blocked a bunch of election trolls. In threads like these I can almost feel their presence.
It’s always the same 5 users