They literally pointed out that a lot of the people saying this kind of stuff may genuinely be unskilled when it comes to computers in general.
Why is it “trying nothing” when the other option to get up to speed enough to use Linux is to basically be taking some college-level courses on the side of their every day life just to be able to use their device appropriately?
For people who aren’t tech savvy at all, “Ain’t nobody got the time for that!” is a completely fucking reasonable response to being told they need to go learn a bunch of shit about some subject they could give a rats ass about.
It’s like telling someone who has a law degree and works 50 hours a week at a law firm that if they want more control over their car they need to take some courses on automotive repair so they don’t have to deal with an annoying repair shop. As above, ain’t nobody got the time for that!
Literally every Linux nerd seems to forget that this is specialized knowledge that not everyone has dumped skill points into.
We need some repair cafe type setup where linux nerds get to set up linux on people’s machines.
Nah, it will never work. Grandma Esthel is gonna get Arch Linux on her 20yo machine and everyone is gonna be unhappy still.
In 2025, you (in the general sense, not @SnotFlickerman specifically) are not entitled to be unskilled and bitch about it. You are being made to care about how to properly deal with technology, because you cannot function in society without some baseline level of computer literacy.
Don’t like it? Go live in a fucking shack in the woods, like the Unabomber.
I gave my grandma a Linux, she had no idea. All she needed was a web browser that didn’t feed her ads and give her issues. Fedora with KDE was super simple for her to figure out how to use and actually had better accessibility features for her. And it was free.
Linux is actually pretty noob friendly nowadays. And if you don’t want to mess with it yourself, you can buy computers with Linux preinstalled today.
I get that sometimes people just want to complain and not solution. But like, using windows and other surveillance capitalism adjacent products is a path to fascism so like…maybe people should just, critically evaluate their problems and think of solutions every now and then?
I literally use Linux in my daily life non-stop. My desktop is free from Windows and I run numerous servers for various services and microservices.
I just fundamentally disagree with the hivemind that Linux desktop of any flavor is ready for casual user prime-time. Even if they don’t have technical issues with now that doesn’t mean they won’t have technical issues with it ever. In my personal experience, I have only ever had successful long-term rollouts of non-gui cli-only servers. I have always had issues of some sort crop up with desktop Linux eventually.
Further, depending on the DE, getting things set up properly for someone who has, say, vision issues so everything is easily visible for them can often be a fucking nightmare of numerous different config files for different parts of the GUI. Linux accessibility options are notoriously bad.
If you want to pretend Linux is a perfect solution for grandmas, go ahead, but as someone who is a Linux heavy user who doesn’t even use Windows anymore and hasn’t in a while I think that this attitude from Linux evangelists is deeply rooted in a rose tinted view of the OS and it’s user friendliness. And yes I use the term evangelist for a fucking reason, and that is because you people are as fucking pushy about your ideology as evangelical Christians.
I’ve handed noobs Linux machines and they use them just fine, they understand how to open the browser and steam and thats basically 90% of what they need the PC for. They aren’t power users and aren’t installing anything else from what I’ve seen. I gave a bazzite machine to a cousin about four months ago and she’s just happy to play some hello Kitty game she didn’t have on her switch.
I have a buddy on discord who works in IT and works on Linux servers a lot too and he basically said the same thing, that Linux isnt good for genpop, but like, I’m genpop and I found it much simpler than dealing with windows all the time. I tell him all the time too, like I’m not sure what he thinks is so difficult about it, I just login and open Firefox, then close it and shut my PC down. From time to time I edit photos and play games on steam. I’m not building ai models or anything crazy, heck I haven’t even changed the desktop wallpaper because I’m not on the desktop long enough to care.
So then what’s the fucking difference if they’re bitching about their issues with Windows versus bitching about their issues with Linux? Doesn’t that bring us back to the original post? Let people complain. If they’re going to have issues either way and bitch either way, why the fuck do you have to evangelize them to get them to shut up about the ones you’re ideologically opposed to? What are you really doing other than having them bitch about something you feel happy about? You haven’t materially made their life better, they still have computer issues they hate, but now they just have a smaller number of people they can turn to for help. Great job.
I’m not pretending anything. I literally did what I said and gave it to my grandma and I hooked her up with a local computer repair guy that will do house calls and knows Linux because I live very far away. This worked well for 10 years or so until she died.
Im not saying people don’t have issues with Linux. It’s still a computer.
Are you saying people don’t run into issues using windows?
If you need windows for very specific thjngs, I get it. But for most people, if they had a local PC shop that they could trust with Linux issues, then it would be as convenient as windows if not more.
I hooked her up with a local computer repair guy that will do house calls and knows Linux because I live very far away.
…is vastly different than what first post suggested, and literally ignored the major point of my original post which was that most people simply don’t have the time to figure it out and most also don’t have a Linux-repair-guy on hand. Talk about shifting goalposts here.
Of course people have issues on Windows, that’s why they’re always bitching about it. You don’t think someone who likes to bitch wouldn’t bitch to their Linux-repair-guy when they had Linux issues?
And yes I use the term evangelist for a fucking reason, and that is because you people are as fucking pushy about your ideology as evangelical Christians.
I didn’t realize we were sending gay kids off to camps to be given electroshock therapy.
Not everyone knows how to, or is physically able to, cook food, but its pretty rare for people to get angry and offended if someone tries to suggest a recipe to them. People do that a lot with computers though.
Yea, so this whole argument falls apart with all the easy beginner distros. They’re out of the box easy to use and require minimal computer skills beyond knowing your password, how to use a mouse, and how to use a keyboard. Drivers may not be perfect for everything like your gpu, but if you’re using a GPU you probably have enough vomputer skills to google why the driver ism’t working.
Not defending the behavior in question, but Linux nowadays is MUCH simpler to understand than Windows or MacOS. It is by far the easiest operating system to change to, and the easiest to learn if you are somehow not familiar with any. From a user standpoint it’s the least “techie” OS now (aside from mobile OS of course).
What you describe about “needing to take courses” was true ten years ago, it was probably true three years ago. It is just simply not true now.
You don’t have to know much. It’d be like convincing somehow to learn to change a tire. Yeah you gotta figure it out for a sec, but it’s not a whole as master class or anything.
Accessibility point aside, just because I can’t speak on that not having had to use the features, people that don’t fix their own shit on Linux aren’t fixing their own shit on windows/iOS either, aside from the occasional flat tire. That was the point I was trying to make. Those who do their own troubleshooting will learn no problem.
Those who do their own troubleshooting will learn no problem.
That stance I can agree with, but I fundamentally do not agree that Linux is appropriate for the kind of people who don’t do their own troubleshooting. Because my point is that is specialized knowledge that not everyone has the time to give to, which is why a lot of people don’t troubleshoot their own shit, because they have spent their skill points elsewhere.
Trust me I have met lawyers and doctors who are fucking mystified by computers and don’t even want to get into learning the troubleshooting. That’s what they have IT departments for. Similarly, changing a tire might just be too much trouble for them and that’s why they pay other people to do it.
Yeah I get it, but windows isn’t ready for those users either. In my experience, I fuck with them just about the same. How I fuck with them is often different, but I still have to. In fact, I have to fuck with windows so much because it’s my job to do it, that’s my main driver for using Linux is so I don’t feel like I’m at home working when something fucks up.
I will say though, even if you disagree that theyre on par with each other as far as mundane fuckups go, Linux is and has been closing in super fast, and I’m pretty damn excited about it
But if Windows isn’t ready for those users either, why are people in this thread shitting all over them for not switching to something else they’re not ready for? They’ll complain either way when shit doesn’t work.
They’re complaining about very specific behaviors of windows that do not exist in Linux, and our argument is about whether or not the OSes function well enough for everyday use.
They literally pointed out that a lot of the people saying this kind of stuff may genuinely be unskilled when it comes to computers in general.
Why is it “trying nothing” when the other option to get up to speed enough to use Linux is to basically be taking some college-level courses on the side of their every day life just to be able to use their device appropriately?
For people who aren’t tech savvy at all, “Ain’t nobody got the time for that!” is a completely fucking reasonable response to being told they need to go learn a bunch of shit about some subject they could give a rats ass about.
It’s like telling someone who has a law degree and works 50 hours a week at a law firm that if they want more control over their car they need to take some courses on automotive repair so they don’t have to deal with an annoying repair shop. As above, ain’t nobody got the time for that!
Literally every Linux nerd seems to forget that this is specialized knowledge that not everyone has dumped skill points into.
We need some repair cafe type setup where linux nerds get to set up linux on people’s machines.
Nah, it will never work. Grandma Esthel is gonna get Arch Linux on her 20yo machine and everyone is gonna be unhappy still.
In 2025, you (in the general sense, not @SnotFlickerman specifically) are not entitled to be unskilled and bitch about it. You are being made to care about how to properly deal with technology, because you cannot function in society without some baseline level of computer literacy.
Don’t like it? Go live in a fucking shack in the woods, like the Unabomber.
I gave my grandma a Linux, she had no idea. All she needed was a web browser that didn’t feed her ads and give her issues. Fedora with KDE was super simple for her to figure out how to use and actually had better accessibility features for her. And it was free.
Linux is actually pretty noob friendly nowadays. And if you don’t want to mess with it yourself, you can buy computers with Linux preinstalled today.
I get that sometimes people just want to complain and not solution. But like, using windows and other surveillance capitalism adjacent products is a path to fascism so like…maybe people should just, critically evaluate their problems and think of solutions every now and then?
Many distros of linux are easier to use than osx or windows.
I’m glad I don’t have to deal with registry editor anymore.
I literally use Linux in my daily life non-stop. My desktop is free from Windows and I run numerous servers for various services and microservices.
I just fundamentally disagree with the hivemind that Linux desktop of any flavor is ready for casual user prime-time. Even if they don’t have technical issues with now that doesn’t mean they won’t have technical issues with it ever. In my personal experience, I have only ever had successful long-term rollouts of non-gui cli-only servers. I have always had issues of some sort crop up with desktop Linux eventually.
Further, depending on the DE, getting things set up properly for someone who has, say, vision issues so everything is easily visible for them can often be a fucking nightmare of numerous different config files for different parts of the GUI. Linux accessibility options are notoriously bad.
If you want to pretend Linux is a perfect solution for grandmas, go ahead, but as someone who is a Linux heavy user who doesn’t even use Windows anymore and hasn’t in a while I think that this attitude from Linux evangelists is deeply rooted in a rose tinted view of the OS and it’s user friendliness. And yes I use the term evangelist for a fucking reason, and that is because you people are as fucking pushy about your ideology as evangelical Christians.
I’ve handed noobs Linux machines and they use them just fine, they understand how to open the browser and steam and thats basically 90% of what they need the PC for. They aren’t power users and aren’t installing anything else from what I’ve seen. I gave a bazzite machine to a cousin about four months ago and she’s just happy to play some hello Kitty game she didn’t have on her switch.
I have a buddy on discord who works in IT and works on Linux servers a lot too and he basically said the same thing, that Linux isnt good for genpop, but like, I’m genpop and I found it much simpler than dealing with windows all the time. I tell him all the time too, like I’m not sure what he thinks is so difficult about it, I just login and open Firefox, then close it and shut my PC down. From time to time I edit photos and play games on steam. I’m not building ai models or anything crazy, heck I haven’t even changed the desktop wallpaper because I’m not on the desktop long enough to care.
I always hate it when people talk about “eventual issues that people will encounter on Linux”.
As if Windows doesn’t have those of varying degrees. Usually because Microsoft pushes out an update that breaks things.
When I used windows, I would have issues every other update.
With Linux it’s like once a year, unless I do something stupid to my own system with sudo.
Pretty much my experience, though I didn’t want to give the guy I was replying to any personal anecdotes lol.
They have trained themselves to ignore it as just Windows.
So then what’s the fucking difference if they’re bitching about their issues with Windows versus bitching about their issues with Linux? Doesn’t that bring us back to the original post? Let people complain. If they’re going to have issues either way and bitch either way, why the fuck do you have to evangelize them to get them to shut up about the ones you’re ideologically opposed to? What are you really doing other than having them bitch about something you feel happy about? You haven’t materially made their life better, they still have computer issues they hate, but now they just have a smaller number of people they can turn to for help. Great job.
If the issue is just “my PC is becoming slow, it’s full of annoying AI and i don’t want X microft bullshit” reccomensing Linux will totally help tbf
I’m not pretending anything. I literally did what I said and gave it to my grandma and I hooked her up with a local computer repair guy that will do house calls and knows Linux because I live very far away. This worked well for 10 years or so until she died.
Im not saying people don’t have issues with Linux. It’s still a computer.
Are you saying people don’t run into issues using windows?
If you need windows for very specific thjngs, I get it. But for most people, if they had a local PC shop that they could trust with Linux issues, then it would be as convenient as windows if not more.
…is vastly different than what first post suggested, and literally ignored the major point of my original post which was that most people simply don’t have the time to figure it out and most also don’t have a Linux-repair-guy on hand. Talk about shifting goalposts here.
Of course people have issues on Windows, that’s why they’re always bitching about it. You don’t think someone who likes to bitch wouldn’t bitch to their Linux-repair-guy when they had Linux issues?
I didn’t realize we were sending gay kids off to camps to be given electroshock therapy.
Not everyone knows how to, or is physically able to, cook food, but its pretty rare for people to get angry and offended if someone tries to suggest a recipe to them. People do that a lot with computers though.
Yea, so this whole argument falls apart with all the easy beginner distros. They’re out of the box easy to use and require minimal computer skills beyond knowing your password, how to use a mouse, and how to use a keyboard. Drivers may not be perfect for everything like your gpu, but if you’re using a GPU you probably have enough vomputer skills to google why the driver ism’t working.
Not defending the behavior in question, but Linux nowadays is MUCH simpler to understand than Windows or MacOS. It is by far the easiest operating system to change to, and the easiest to learn if you are somehow not familiar with any. From a user standpoint it’s the least “techie” OS now (aside from mobile OS of course).
What you describe about “needing to take courses” was true ten years ago, it was probably true three years ago. It is just simply not true now.
I use Arch as my daily driver and it is absurd how easy it is to use.
Updating all drivers and programs and the system updates in one command is so awesome and convenient.
yayYou don’t have to know much. It’d be like convincing somehow to learn to change a tire. Yeah you gotta figure it out for a sec, but it’s not a whole as master class or anything.
https://lemmy.world/post/37909826/20160181
Accessibility point aside, just because I can’t speak on that not having had to use the features, people that don’t fix their own shit on Linux aren’t fixing their own shit on windows/iOS either, aside from the occasional flat tire. That was the point I was trying to make. Those who do their own troubleshooting will learn no problem.
That stance I can agree with, but I fundamentally do not agree that Linux is appropriate for the kind of people who don’t do their own troubleshooting. Because my point is that is specialized knowledge that not everyone has the time to give to, which is why a lot of people don’t troubleshoot their own shit, because they have spent their skill points elsewhere.
Trust me I have met lawyers and doctors who are fucking mystified by computers and don’t even want to get into learning the troubleshooting. That’s what they have IT departments for. Similarly, changing a tire might just be too much trouble for them and that’s why they pay other people to do it.
Yeah I get it, but windows isn’t ready for those users either. In my experience, I fuck with them just about the same. How I fuck with them is often different, but I still have to. In fact, I have to fuck with windows so much because it’s my job to do it, that’s my main driver for using Linux is so I don’t feel like I’m at home working when something fucks up.
I will say though, even if you disagree that theyre on par with each other as far as mundane fuckups go, Linux is and has been closing in super fast, and I’m pretty damn excited about it
But if Windows isn’t ready for those users either, why are people in this thread shitting all over them for not switching to something else they’re not ready for? They’ll complain either way when shit doesn’t work.
They’re complaining about very specific behaviors of windows that do not exist in Linux, and our argument is about whether or not the OSes function well enough for everyday use.
I do not accept this idea that people are so unskilled at computers they can’t install Linux, and are so immutably so they can’t get better.
Like yeah sometimes you have to ask for help or watch a YouTube video. That shit’s free and right there.
They definitely exist, but it feels like stubbornness at that point. It absolutely isn’t a lack of capability, it’s a lack of willingness.