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One is a 6 month travel vacation, the other is 5 hours of boredom in cramped space. And before that comes waiting for the flight, stress with boarding, TSA, jet lag,…
And you are supposed to ignore all that and work normally the next day. Or perhaps on the same day, or even on the flight.
our ancestors never could have imagined the horrors of having a middle seat on a plane. there isn’t any room for you to manspread, and manspreading is by far the most comfortable way to sit. when i don’t manspread i feel like i can’t breathe
Are we assuming a 6 month journey didnt come with exhaustion and certain death from starvation, pneumonias, dysentery, disease, infections, freezing and trauma from attacks on the way ? In cooler moist climates a mere cut could be life or death back then. There was not any penicillin.
Have you not heard the horror stories even of today’s boat slaves who die packed in?
I think video games filled with light quests of picking moss might be deluding a few people with how the medieval times actually were.
Open a book.
Certain death? Of course not, that’s absurd. I think you’ve got a very warped “pop-history” view of what the world was like long ago. Of course it depends entirely on when and where we’re talking about (some periods in some places common folk practically never traveled, other times and places people were traveling all the time) but if we assume a time and place where traveling was common, a traveler could expect:
- Paved roads
- Plenty of places to stop and rest (even if there are no inns available, plenty of people are willing to take in travelers for a night, especially holy men on a pilgrimage)
- Few animals left who are willing to try preying on humans (they learned their lesson looooong ago)
- Infrequent disease (you’re spending most of your time out in the open air with a small group of the same people, the only place for disease to come from is unclean water, which you know better than to drink outside of emergencies)
What part of these conditions reminds you of the tightly-packed, underfed, sedentary life of a slave being transported as cargo on a boat?
You’re being absurd. Cleanliness was not what it is today. Even in war marches more died from water born disease as recent as 1800s just trudging rather than war itself. This is our history and how some of our lineages may have been entirely terminated.
Bring oblivious to this is actually really insulting for some who know very well what it took for our own lineage just to travel to safety.
It absolutely was not a walk in the park like you’re selling it. Some people were hunted for years before getting safe.
Cleanliness was not what it is today.
People like to be clean—that’s part of our nature and wasn’t invented in the year 1900. Ash can be used as soap and is extremely abundant.
Even in war marches
You say that like war matches are less likely to be deadly. Medieval military logistics were extremely difficult to manage. The needs of an entire army are massively different to the needs of a small band of pilgrims or other travelers. It is more difficult to maintain food supplies, clean drinks, and safe lodging when you’re traveling in an enormous group of (sometimes unwelcome) armed men.
It absolutely was not a walk in the park like you’re selling it
For a lot of people in a lot of places in a lot of time periods, it really was. Towns were close together, people were generous with travelers, and the roads were safe.
Woohoo! Oregon trail time! Let’s go!
You have died of dysentery
Truly, road trips are more fun than flights
Yes, but when you’ve got 300KM between petrol stations and those are bloody expensive, so you’ve really got to plan ~1000KM of fuel, is a lot more of a task than just booking a flight.
But still more fun.
Everyone here saying they want the medieval travel version because modern air travel is sooooo terrible should really be joking.
To start, safety. Going on a 6 month journey in the middle ages came with a significant increase in your chance of a gruesome death relative to staying home. Of course, mortality was higher at home than it is today as well, but travel increased mortality even more, since you could very well run into thieves/pirates/slavers, new and exciting diseases your immune system wasn’t adapted to, end up stranded and/or lost in the wilderness, or just get kicked by a horse. In contrast, modern air travel is one of the safest ways to travel today - which makes it one of the safest ways to travel in all of human history.
Next, comfort. As an average traveller in the middle ages (not a noble person), you will be walking. Maybe you have a horse or donkey in your group to help carry food and supplies, but the supplies will take priority, and the only way you get to ride that animal is if you break your leg. To any fans of camping/backpacking, remember that you will not be using modern tents, backpacks, or shoes. Your shelter for a night out will be, at best, a good wool blanket or cloak - mosquitos or gnats buzzing in your ears, rain falling on your face, the cold ground sucking away your warmth. Your backpack, at best, is a sack with shoulder straps, or perhaps a few sticks lashed together with a few ropes to hang over your shoulders - and it may just be a sack that you sling over your shoulder and carry from the front with both hands, your body bruised, aching, and chaffed after just one day of handling such a load. Your shoes are floppy bits of leather - no support or padding to be heard of. If you get sick? Keep walking, or the group is leaving you behind. Get to a villiage? Maybe you’ll get a respite by sleeping under the eves of someones roof or on the hard wood floor of the local church. Food? Heard of hard tack? Shit your pants? Well, you’ll just have to walk in your shit pants for 6 months. But yes, yes, tell me how this is so much better than being mildly uncomfortable sitting in a climate controlled airplane for a few hours while you look down on the earth like a LITERAL FUCKING GOD.
And finally, time. People here seem to think like medieval people travelled for 6 months just for funsies. But no, this is not like taking a year long vacation. For one thing, the other two reasons above - your life is going to be very shitty for basically the whole time, and you might just die due to an ill-tempered musselman or an evil jew witch cursing you to shit blood. But also, you are giving up the opportunity to do anything else to improve your life or the life of your family for a whole year. Your mom could get sick and die. That sexy somebody you keep making eye contact with could marry someone else. The part of the community crop land you’ve been angling to get assigned to your family will get snaked by Bill - of course. Fucking Bill. What a dick. And really, until you show up again, no one is going to do anything to help you out because, again, there is a good chance you die on your trip.
Now, of course, everyone on Lemmy will hate to hear this, because of course, sitting next to a baby on a plane because of THE CAPITALISTS is literally the worst thing that ever happened to anyone, ever, and it was definitely better to die of plague while living under the rule of a literal feudal lord.
But what they’ll hate to hear even more is that if you really want to go on a year long pilgrimage, you can fucking do that. You could start today. And it would still be better than your medival counterparts’, almost no matter what. You can quit your job, break your lease, and start travelling with a few dollars in your pocket - and when you want to return to normal life, just say “oh, I was travelling”, and all the hiring managers will think you are super cool. You can hitchhike across countries where you don’t speak the language, and use your smartphone to translate. You can eat for free out of dumpsters because we throw out tons and tons of perfectly edible food every day. If you are reading this now, you can make money easily simply by travelling to a particular place and speaking a language you already know. If you decide to walk through the wilderness for days, weeks, or months, you can find free maps, mapping software, and information not just about the safest routes, but the most beautiful. You can pick up extraordinarily light, comfortable, and functional equipment from a thrift store. YOU CAN SEE AT NIGHT WITH THE CLICK OF A BUTTON. And if, during your travels, you find out your mom has fallen ill, or Bill is about to swindle the family farm, you can beg, borrow, or steal enough money to catch an oh-so-uncomfortable plane ride home and deal with the situation.
Holy shit, YES, flying economy on an airplane is so much better.
They let bots on lemmy now? No human would bother to write all that out over a silly meme like that.
And even if it were written by a human, I won’t ever read that just cause it might be AI.I’m sure people in the middle ages where adapted to most of the situations. For example If you don’t wash for a few days or sit near a fire mosquitoes are less of a problem. Most towns, inns or taverns where less than 1 days march from the next in medieval Europe, so you would not have to sleep in the woods. There where also seasonal workers who would not live in one place, but move depending on the season to help sow or harvest fields, or work at different cities in their trade to learn new skills from different masters to see different countries.
Eh if you’re a peasant and stay at home you might be conscripted to fight for your lord against the people lord the next county over just because they have a disagreement or maybe because they’re bored or whatever. Probably gonna die a gruesome death either way. Going on a pilgrimage you at least see some of the world before you meet your gruesome death.
To be fair a lot of things never get better unless people are complaining and TSA is one of them.
My entire issue with flying is not it taking a few hours. It’s that airlines make it as shitty as they can. They really go all out in that way.
Flying does suck.
They do pack people like sardines but I don’t think the airline industry is making big margins. If they didn’t treat you like shit there is a possibility that you might be priced out entirely.
You can always pay to be one of the pod people.
Before the 2010s, airlines upgraded people if all first class seats aren’t filled. Today they give you an option to pay the difference between an economy seat and first class, which I’ve never heard of someone choosing.
It doesn’t have to be that bad, I have 2 short flights on Air China today, both come with a meal, carryon, 1 checked bag (sometimes 2 if the cargo space isn’t sold out).
Time is a luxury. Even on a small scale - I bike or walk to work most days, because I have the luxury of waking up when I wake up, having a morning and a slow human powered commute. That is privilege, yes? So many have to drive an hour or even more.
If I had the time to walk to somewhere far, I would take it.
I guess on the upside, a faster life means more stuff done in each life?
A half-year pilgrim sounds fantastic! Get a break from my job and explore the world, probably share the expenses and burden with other fellow pilgrims.
Sign me the fuck up now.
5 hours out of a 3 day vacation w/ another 5 hours at the end. Also you’re gonna have to do some shit when you get back home to be ready for work on Monday.
Vs.
Hey we’re going to be traveling for 6 months, this is just your life now.
I could be wrong but I feel like the death rates for those trips were also very high
Yes but to be fair, the death rate of staying home was also high
At least on a pilgrimage I can lie down
And die of dysentery. Yayyy.
And no jet lag
More than that. Planes are just fancy flying cattle trucks. A lot of the time I’m in one it’s so I can get to a destination I’ll be hiking for several days lol. I’m all for Team Pilgrimage.
I’d prefer the plane if I could be emulsified and piped into a holding container.
Or maybe if I got to be in the cargo hold with the dogs.
I am still waiting on Fifth Element style sleeping pods! Sadly they can’t do them even if they wanted to due to regulations.
I live in a part of America where you can drive at 70 mph for 4 hours and still be in the middle of nowhere…💀
Tell me you live in Texas without telling me.
Nope, north eastern Nevada.
Unless you’re driving in the opposite direction.
Then you’re back somewhere
👁️ 🫦 👁️
The monks are not expected to increase shareholder profits in stale air and incessant fluorescent lighting.
I get vibes of “the king requests an audience so you need to travel 20 days to get to the capital” vibes. You need to waste 41-50 days of your life because your manager wants to talk to you face to face for a few minutes.
If the king request an audience with you, then you’re probably some middle management as well, which mean you also do the exact same thing but this time to a peasant because they didn’t pay enough tax or their tribute isn’t as good as last year, so they have to waste a few hours of their life just so you can threaten them face to face.
Medieval, amirite
It’s a break from the tedium of subsistance sharecropping…
Do you think the king is going to send a laborer in your place?
That’s what your 16 kids are for, duh…
Also, the whole village likely cultivates the same fields, so it’s not like it’s some private landholding that will fallow if you’re not there to tend it. Long live the commons!
Would you rather…
- 6-month boat ride to the Holy Land (you believe in it and it’s real),
OR
- 5-month plane ride to the 43rd Annual Corporate Circlejerk
5-month plane ride
Is the meeting on Mars?
…yes
…yeah ok, sign me up.
