I would gladly buy one, if i had disposable income.
They are expensive up front. I have one of the first 11th generation Intel ones. I bought a new CPU fan last year instead of getting a new laptop. One of my kids dropped it, and I’ll need a new screen for it here soon.
Instead of buying 3 laptops, I bought 1 and repaired it. Super worth it.
speaking of Framework. did anything turn out of their “big tent” approach as they were saying it? was there any continuation of that thing?
for those who have no idea, there was some controversy around Framework when they were collaborating with omarchy and its founder of some specific beliefs
I like the idea of owning one. Then I see the prices and I compare them with the prices of refurbished ThinkPads… (No, I don’t need a new laptop)
Nothing wrong with buying a used machine.
I bought one because I want to support modular/repairable tech. At the time I had the disposable income for it. I dig it.
Samsies. I also got the amd version that came out before the AI 300 stuff, so it was discounted, which was nice
What about buying a used framework?
I still have my 17" Satellite l300. Still runs briskly. On its third battery.
I bought one for myself, and a high spec one for my wife’s business. Mine is just a personal machine but I’ve been using it as a portable home server in my various moves. Very happy with both. They didn’t seem a crazy amount more than similar spec machines in Europe
This is rage bait
Yes, pretend it’s something wrong with the right idea (a repairable /upgradable device) and not the fact that America took a giant, wet trump all over the entire economy and a combo meal at mcdonalds is $16 with a small, non-refillabke drink and everything else is exponentially fucked from there.
Give us a reasonable pre-trump PC market, with this being a slight premium above that, do projections to normalize cost of ownership over say 10 years and it would grow. But we live here, so no.
You think trump caused, or even had anything to do with current pc prices? 🤣
You’d have to be borderline mentally invalid to ignore the impact trump has had on the entirety of American business and the economy, let alone the RAM crisis him and his loser AI cronies are causing.
You think Trump is responsible for AI companies buying all the RAM and SSDs?
TDS at its best.
Tariffs made many things more expensive for consumers including computers and parts, yes.
Tariffs have nothing to do with it, clearly, when countries other than the US have the same prices and issues with RAM and other pc parts.
Please make a post in response to this one because you really got your stuff together on knowing facts
Edit: Not a jab at post OP either just saying we need repairable laptops and when it becomes norm even cheaper ones will be good
They’re on my list the next time I need one.
I own one 🤷♂️ they’re expensive but I’d recommend em nonetheless
I was considering a framework but realized i didn’t need a laptop. lol
Would like one, though!
I wanted to buy one, but they are veeery expensive, almost twice for a similarly specd laptop. Plus thet don’t offer OLED screens.
bullshit, similar spec laptop AT WORST is ~100-150 USD more, if you are looking at 2x price, on similar spec, you are looking at a no name brad with the worst of the worst parts, that will 1000% fail in less than 6 months and will fall apart in less than a year.
The cheapest 32 GB + 1 TB + 1 HDMI + 1 USB A + 2 USB C + Charger + Windows 11 model I found is the Framework 12, which has a slower CPU than my actual laptop. Those specs costs $1400 USD, shipping to muy country would costa some extra $100 USD. I bought my Lenovo one for $900 + shipping. Fair, is not double the price, but also far more than $150 USD.
I went to see to compare against a Thinkpad (E14).
Framework Laptop 13: $1140 for the Ultra 5 125H, 8GB, 256GB Lenovo E15: $1120 for the Ultra 5 225u 16GB, 256GB
Lenovo price is a “sale” on their site off the “list price” of $1340
Framework wins:
- The H series processor is superior to the U series, even if older model -More custo options in general - eg I can choose 16gb in 1 stick vs 2 sticks, or I can choose “none” (also for SSD) -I can choose No OS and save some money there
Framework loses: No Core 5 in stock. I don’t need a 7, that’s $2-300 I don’t need to spend
Framework Neutral: No 256SSD in stock. But I do have the option to get no SSD and just buy my own. Arguably a win for me but not ideal for some
I’m unclear if Laptop 13 is the correct comparison vs a Laptop 13 Pro. The E14 is a mid-tier pro model, not a top of the line, which is where I tend to chill with laptops since they’re not my dailies anyway).
Anyway, as someone shopping for a laptop, I see that prices are the same. Given this, Framework wins.
HOWEVER: If I was actually shopping for a laptop, I would buy a used older-model E14 on Ebay for say $400. I know it would last, they’re repairable, and for the cost I could buy spare parts now. Because this is a secondary (1/week) device for me, I wouldn’t spend $1100 on a laptop in general. Not when Thinkpads are ppossibly the next-most-repairable laptop out there.
Ultimate calculus - Framework isn’t for me. Yet.
Now, if I had the money for activism? Sure, let’s get more of these into the 2nd hand market, stop the waste. Or no second hand market at all, just upgrade like a Desktop.
At some point, I may have no need for a desktop. At that point, $1100 for a primary PC is a good price, esp if I can build on it. If I was a laptop user, me who like custo and upgradeability - Framework is a fair value, good price even.
Anyway, to the point of the comment chain above me, I would say it’s a 1:1 price. If you’re shopping in that spec range anyway. If you need lower spec than Core Ultra 5H, say Ultra/Ryzen 3U, Framework doesn’t target that audience - and neither do quality [major] OEMs (you might find a great sale somewhere of course). But basically a well-built mid-tier laptop just costs $1000-$1200 new these days (I’d have said $800-$1000 before the price hikes recently).
HOWEVER
your however is pointless. This is not a second hand market, you are comparing apples to cars. They are not the same. Your first points are somewhat ok.
No activism here, obviously you dont grasp how cheaper this gets long term even compared to second hand laptops. I have the 13. I will give you few examples now - talking in general here, not a specific laptop but a good majority.
My SSD dies I change it, yours is soldered (ESPECIALLY ON MAC) you BUY a new laptop.
My Ram dies or i want to upgrade it, I change it, yours is soldered (many have it now like asus, acer etc. for no reason, no LLM usability or speed chase) you BUY a new laptop at best sell off this one at a loss and buy a new one.
I break my display or display frame, I change the display EASILY or the display frame with a simple snap - YOU BUY A NEW LAPTOP your old is salvaged for few parts and is useless as 99.9% of people cant change their laptop monitor as its hard and in some cases deliberately made impossible to do.
My needs change, i need to change from HDMI to Display port or USB C port for display out etc. (real case for me) I simply buy 2 new ports for 40 usd, you buy a new laptop at best sell this one off at a huge loss.
I drop my laptop and my chassis break, I buy a new chassis, you buy a new laptop and trow this one in the bin with few salvaged parts.
this one is specific to linux users … i buy the laptop, EVERYTHING works out of the box, you thinker and there is a 50/50 chance few of the parts are not optimized or they outright dont have drivers for linux.
Now here is the kicker … I use my laptop for 5 years, I dont wnat to spend 2k on a laptop, I simply by a new mobo and upgrade only that, and you know what ? I can re-use my old mobo in a case as a PC, homelab, server, media station OR sell it on a big re-sale market and re-coup some of my money, thus the purchase of my new mobo gets cheaper.
Ow my old laptop is too old now and the camera quality is bad, the speakers are weak the fingerprint is slow, the touchapd is old ? good news … there are 3 generations of reversions, my hinges are weak ? again, new revisions your battery is old ? ha … good nows again, there are 3 types of batteries that you can buy NOT from china re-branded second had batteries for your laptop that under the hood are re-used old ones charging you as new ones, but a new one, bigger, better, faster you ? you buy 2x batteries from china, spend 400 usd because there are none sold officially anywhere because your manufacturer moved long time ago to newer models and then after you lost those money as you got scammed you buy a new laptop.
I can go on much more btw … but this got too long :) I think you get the picture :) There is no activism here my friend, its smart purchasing and investment in NOT spending shit ton of money and owning what i use. You do not own your computer. I bet your lenovo, if something breaks, try your luck with the lenovo warranty … see what happens (speaking from experience there).
your however is pointless.
Edit3: I thought about it and you’re right, the point is irrelevant in the context of this thread. Really should have been a separate comment re/ the target market.
I have a framework 13. Last week I noticed my battery had gone spicy pillow. Screwed it open, removed the battery and ordered a new one. A few days later I got the new battery, put it in and screwed everything back together. Took me less than 30 minutes in total, got original parts and not some sketchy Amazon crap, was less complicated than repairing my desktop PC. This is how you do repairable tech.
I’m thinking of a framework for my next machine but I have been using laptops for decades. Still have a Linux one from 2014. None of them get spicy pillow. So… just luck of the draw?
I guess. I’ve had a hp convertible previously and it also got the spicy pillow. Just my luck I guess. The difference was, that the hp one had shifty screws and lots of glue and the case was permanently deformed by the expanding battery. In comparison the experience with my framweork was just so much better
Was the battery covered by warranty?
I don’t know if It generally is, I’ve already had my framework for some years, so the warranty was already expired.
Amazing. I did the same on my 2012 macbook air, and a friend’s Asus notebook. My 2019 Lenovo is still going strong, I expect to get 10y of lifetime out of it. Oh, and Lenovo spare parts are dime a dozen. I have rebuilt old Lenovos multiple times in my life, typically by buying a broken donor machine.
So exactly what is the business case for buying a Framework Notebook?
(Yes, they are really beautiful, cool and I’d WANT one. But there always was a better option to buy, for one reason - price: used Lenovo, portability: MacBook Air)
I want one real, real bad. But buying anything with RAM and SSDs in it right now is off the table.
I also want a Steam Machine and an AM5 based desktop. Also not gonna happen.
That’s the thing: it’s one of the few laptops you can buy without RAM and disk (of course only usable if you have these parts already)
Yeah. I get it. I don’t have any spare DDR5 SODIMMS or Samsung EVO m.2s laying around.
The point is that I won’t be upgrading anything anytime soon, and probably a lot of other people are in the same boat. I would love a Framework 16.
Unless you’re in the top right branch of our current K shaped economy, most people won’t be buying a Framework or a Steam Machine or upgrading their gaming rig right now.
I want one too
It do be like that
I’m increasingly comfortable being in n the almost nobody category. You should be too, after all almost nobody uses Lemmy.
It’s nice here.
Makes me think how much I wanted to play mutliplayer games as a kid. I always played single because all my games were err, yknow.
Then I got to play MP little by little only to realize I hate everyone. Teammates in shooters are almost always idiots. People raid me in online RPG’s because I dare not log in at 7 AM daily. My friends are impatient as fuck playing open world games like Minecraft, it always ends in 2 weeks. Nobody can agree what game to play. They tell me how they argued and broke up with their so and so as I’m fighting for my life in the trenches of battlefield 1, like I give a damn.
Now I play by myself in that little “almost nobody” and I’m happier than I ever was in multiplayer…
