I’ve seen alot of calls for violence in America. Whether it be directed at the president or Federal officers, many people are advocating for an escalation in response to the current situation.
And believe me, I do understand. what I see happening in America is horrifying. But all I am imploring is to really think about what your asking for. Because you can’t put the genie in the bottle once you’ve left it out.
If you’re really gung-ho about it, go and ask a Veteran of Iraq or Afghanistan about it and see what they think. If anyone will know about it they will.
I am going to link a YouTube Playlist. Its the Associated Press Archives of the Bosnian-Serbian war. Because THAT is what will happen if wide scale violence breaks out. Except what will happen in America will be a hundred times worse.
The Bosnian war was pretty much broken up along ethnic lines. “Well it’s going to be Conservative VS. Liberal” you say. Except it won’t be. It will be anyone having a grudge against someone going after them.
ALOT of personal animosity will be taken out in the first few weeks I feel.
And I think the Seige of Sarajavo will be writ large in American cities across the country. Imagine having to dodge sniper fire on your way to get to your job at Wendy’s.
Because that’s the other thing no one is thinking about. You are still going to have to make a living while this is all going to be happening. And the cost of everything will skyrocket. Shipping will probably have to be escorted from place to place because people will be stealing or even blockading locations because they’re “damn dirty libs” or “Fascist Conservatives” Fresh produce will become a thing of the past.
Canada and Mexico will close their borders due to all the refugee’s trying to cross. so if you thinking of doing it, do it the moment everything pops off because otherwise you won’t get in.
Basically Civil war is going to the worst thing to happen in America in a long time. and the only good that comes out of it will be Americans will finally have first hand experience of real war torn violence. And maybe that will hopefully last for another two hundred years or so.
If America even survives the outcome that is.
The first U.S. civil war never really ended, it has just gone into a long “cold” phase.
Those times are ending.
I think the country splits into multiple nations before a true all out conflict. Maybe a 4 part split.
Old South Northeast Some kind of Texas southern alliance with other states in the Louisiana purchase Northwest and Pacific coast.
North East, West Coast then what will be globally known as the asscrack right up the middle. Texas will be known as the Purple Star state.
Cyberpunk 2020 (the original tabletop game) kinda predicted that sort of outcome.
Man, I don’t even own a gun.
They solve few problems well. They exacerbate a great many and even create a few of their own.
At a very low-level of practicality for civil unrest and a kakistocracy run amok, a man with a gun is on average less than useless. A well trained militia, a community who are disciplined, trained and organized with competent leadership, people with guns start to have a purpose. The kicker is a community of trained and organized people with competent leadership are almost as effective without guns with a little ingenuity.
Baudrillard has a (3?) part essay on how the gulf war never really happened, which by that he meant how we in the West understood the war is that of a media event rather than that of real war. At least that’s the heavily simplified version of it. Alot of people’s imagery of a war is essentially like drone footage and headlines about Gaza, Few of us can comprehend the idea of being in an active war. I have relatives who have and their anecdotes make war seems more normal and scary the same time.
We really do not know what we are getting ourselves into.
Im glad you’ve said this. Before I saw The Death of Yugoslavia, I honestly believed that modern warfare was clean, clinical, and restricted to willing combatants. That the Geneva Conventions, various constitutional statements, and human honour and decency were a part of modern wars. At least since Vietnam.
No. I was disabused of that notion by this documentary. Yes, I agree, the BBC shouldn’t have the last word on a war in Eastern Europe. The BBC probably shouldn’t have the last word on anything. However, they did happen to have the first word — to me — on the importance of understanding how modern wars get started, how they progress, and chillingly, why they don’t end. It’s a sad, slow, solemn march into oblivion.
I agree with you but can it be prevented? And if so how?
It’s worthwhile you mention Sarajevo, and in reference to that I will post this tidbit posted by a MetaFilter user in 2009 regarding their experience in the siege of Sarajevo. I have it bookmarked and post it from time to time where it seems appropriate. The reality is though, you’re correct, Americans by and large don’t know what they’re asking for.
Well, unlike the majority of you (I assume), I actually lived several years in a period of savagery and killing, during which nothing - food, water, electricity, phone, clothing, sense of safety, school, the ability to go out in public, etc - was available, except during totally unpredictable, brief and sporadic occasions.
Of those who couldn’t leave my city, Sarajevo:
Some people (very few) were prepared for what they thought would be the “long haul” - this tended to be a couple of months. These people were widely seen as lunatics and dangerously pessimistic ones at that.
Most people were not at all prepared. This included my family. Many of those - like my family - considered the idea of “preparation” to be an affront to the decency we felt most people possessed. Were we wrong? Well, I don’t know. We suffered greatly; my parents were killed. But speaking only for myself, I never felt I cheapened my soul by betting on calamity. Today, that still feels like it’s worth something.
But here’s the main point: “Preparing” for the disaster really didn’t do anyone much good. Those who “prepared” ate a little better for a while. They stayed warmer for a few extra days. They enjoyed the radio for a while longer (via batteries.) But in the end, they ended up hungry, cold and bored too, just like the rest of us. Guns and weapons helped no one directly and were even of little to no use in the defense of Sarajevo, since they were toys compared to the shells, bombs and high-powered armaments of the attacking forces. The worst parts of war were psychological - the fear, anxiety, boredom, loneliness, paranoia, bad dreams. Respite from those things came with sharing food with a neighbor, finding a piece of clothing that would fit someone you knew, commiserating with others in your position, figuring out how to make make-up from brick or french fries from wheat paste and spreading this newly-acquired war knowledge around the mahala.
We knew who had extra food and supplies. For the most part, they weren’t attacked or hassled or bothered. Contrary to what these survivalists say, those in dire times generally hold on to their personal sense of pride even more than they do in normal times. I’d take a bite of a friend’s salad without bothering to ask in normal times. I’d never have done that in wartime, no matter how hungry I was.
Within the domain of those trapped in the city, civility greatly increased.
You often hear how Holocaust survivors felt guilt at surviving. Well, during war, that was a feeling everyone was aware of - people started dying right away (my parents were killed near the start of the siege, for instance) - and there was a palpable enough common sense of karma to make everyone into good Samaritans. None of us understood why we survived while others didn’t. I shared food when I had it, even though I often knew I wouldn’t have a crumb the next day. Which was no big achievement, because nearly everyone did the same.
Those who’d prepared, well, the majority of them shared their food and whatever else they had as soon as someone else was clearly in need. I can’t swear it, but I think they felt a little foolish to have been so self-obsessed, and giving away that stuff might have lessened that feeling. There were a few people who hoarded things until they ran out of stuff - eventually everybody ran out of anything worth hoarding - and they soon became wishful beggars like the rest of us. Again, I can’t swear it, but I hear stories, and it seems that these people suffer from post-war trauma, guilt and nightmares more than the rest of us.
Those survivalists, I feel sorry for them. It’s no way to live.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 9:33 PM on January 28, 2009
More like This War of Mine, maybe.
A game so depressing I stopped playing.
Same. Powerful, though.
If you’re really gung-ho about it, go and ask a Veteran of Iraq or Afghanistan about it and see what they think. If anyone will know about it they will.
My uncle that served in Iraq still wakes up screaming in the night. He’s a shell of the man he used to be. Another vet my age I knew was absolutely erratic after serving. He couldn’t hold a job and ended up homeless and assaulted someone for their spot under a bridge.
My whole family bears the scars of the PTSD from what my grandfather saw from WWII. He also woke up screaming for years afterward.
I had an old buddy who served in Vietnam. One time I asked him what it was like to kill someone. I’ll never forget his answer.
“You know, when you’ve got your rifle trained on somebody, there for a split second you’ve got the power of God in your hands. You get to decide if that person lives or dies. Nobody should have that kind of power. I only wish I had known that before I had done things that I couldn’t undo.”
He said he still had nightmares all the time, even 45 years later.
I think there’s gonna be a lot of Asian American stores getting looted if this happens.
Asian diasporas are always considered the universal “soft target”, I mean just read the news.
We’d have LA Riots all over again, law enforcement will leave us to die while racist mobs lynch us.
Soft? Those folks were hard as fuck.
Unfortunately, most of us aren’t former ROK Army
Everyone needs a rooftop Korean.
and the only good that comes out of it will be Americans will finally have first hand experience of real war torn violence.
Hey, it might result in the dissolution of the US, whcih as a firm believer in “death to America” I’d welcome gladly. Anyway in case anyone thinks a peaceful resolution is possible, yeah no.
Just a prime opportunity to correct Operation Paperclip and finish what our grandparents thought they did.
The times may change but people stay the same. In the early days of the (first) American civil war, people expected it to be done and over with very quickly. To the point they went out with picnic baskets and sandwiches to view the battle. They might not have even understood how devastating the war was going to be even as the confederates won that battle.
Basically Civil war is going to the worst thing to happen in America in a long time. and the only good that comes out of it will be Americans will finally have first hand experience of real war torn violence. And maybe that will hopefully last for another two hundred years or so.
‘Bout fuckin’ time they reap what they sow… and while i get what you’re saying i doubt there won’t be a civil war in Murica with the orange ape in charge, so get ready.
