- cross-posted to:
- hardware@lemmy.world
- hardware@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- hardware@lemmy.world
- hardware@programming.dev
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…What forces defend these datacenters? Could a platoon of motivated civilians armed with pump action shotguns carry all the RAM out of one?
No but anyone with a a cheap vintage military rifle with 2000 yard/meter iron sights could reek havoc by lobbing a few bullets at a data center like a mortar from extreme range. Probable wouldn’t do any critical damage but eventually someone would realize that those loud cracks are bullets and they would have to evacuate every time, forensic teams would have to come in a scour the entire place for bullet fragments and impacts. It would be a massive expensive pain in the ass. The security and insurance cost would be insane. That might put some cold water on the market.
They would have to start building these things inside the restricted Nevada test range if enough people took up this new hobby.
You remember a few years ago when some random town in North Carolina made the national news because some Proud Boys shot out the substation because there was a drag show at a local downtown theater?
I’m from there.
What I learned in those four days without refrigeration or air conditioning is that substations aren’t bulletproof.
They use a different kind of RAM.
It’s the capacity to make RAM and the materials required to make RAM that is going to datacenters.
They use a different kind of RAM.
I probably got an adapter lying around somewhere
So we should just straight-up vandalize them? As much property damage as possible, forget the shotguns, bring bulldozers, gasoline and road flares?
You should target their internet connection. Fiber cables are easier to damage and harder to protect. It’s also easier to fix so longer, organized campaign would be needed but I think it would be possible to avoid capture for longer.
Whose this “you” you refer to? XD
You. When you said “we should” that does kinda imply you’re willing to engage in this as well :P
Now let’s be clear here: I’m only inciting violence. My person committing violence may or may not occur, your honor/ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
The same as your “we”. I assume you have some group ready to go.
Lemmy.world runs from a data center, and virtually all other instances
Oh no!
Hold on while I use AI to create an image of a dog in a funny hat!
As far as I know this user is a dog
Yeah, so this is the part where the market regulates itself? Y’know, the part where ultra billionaires just dump money by the boatloads to buy up stuff that everyone needs?
Capitalism will ONLY work if we put hard caps on how much wealth a single person can hoard. Billionaires shouldn’t exist. Millionaires shouldn’t exist. There is no need for them and there is no human right somewhere that says that you really van become one.
Any wealth over 1 million should be taxed 100%, doesn’t matter the country.
With that, we can say goodbye to hundreds of problems that plague the world, including this one
My dad’s house that he bought in 2006 is worth over 1 million, how do you tax that
If you are in my state, it’s taxed via property tax.
A million ain’t what it used to be. You want to retire so you need to invest. You don’t want to pass laws that make that impossible.
deleted by creator
Any middle-class person who puts their mind to it will become a millionaire. It involves living below your means, not buying cars constantly, and investing your money for decades. I can’t stress enough how big of a difference those things make.
A huge portion of retirees are millionaires because they were responsible and didn’t blow all their money.
Millionaires shouldn’t exist.
Why would you want responsible, middle-class retirees to blow their money instead? Why would you force them into a situation where they have to rely on others in their retirement rather than living comfortably off their own hard work?
Very much so, even someone in the trades could well be a millionaire when they retire.
This platform is so incredibly out of touch with reality, especially the more left leaning side of things.
A millionaire these days just means you’ve paid off your mortgage and have a decent amount put away for retirement.
I only half agree with this assessment. Most million dollar homes are million dollar homes due to billionaires and firms poaching housing from actual families and driving up prices.
Idk WHERE we draw the line, but I absolutely say we start culling from the top and see where we land.
That’s not true, considering 60% home ownership. How can most homes be owned by billionaires when most people own their homes. Are most people billionaires?
The housing market is effed in a lot of places, no argument from me on that. But stringing up someone with a nest egg for their retirement isn’t the solution.
Oh, for sure, but I’d bet my goat that the problem would go away WELL before people started looking at single family homes actually owned by families.
Marx himself wrote this long ass book explaining the capitalism of his time, yet modern leftist have no interest understanding the capitalism of their time.
I don’t remember it being that big of a book.
I think all volumes of capital combined are like 1000 pages?
You’re probably right. I last read part of it for a class about 35 years ago, and I no longer trust my memory anyways.
There’s a lot they don’t understand, to be honest.
Only good LLM is a deleted LLM, same goes for capitalists.
rm -rf capitalism/
It’s not a shortage, it’s billionaires hoarding the existing supply.
So essentially scalpers.
Except there are zero contracts in place to actually build those data centers, nor is there enough power generated to run them. I really wish tech journalists would do the background to determine if what these documented liars are saying is even possible, never mind likely.
When this all crashes to the ground it’s going to be ugly.
RAM will be cheap! So will the dollar… Maybe I can get a good deal on upgrades to my server by reclaiming the gold in the contacts?
Can’t happen soon enough. Few people want AI and now it will fuck over a bunch of people very directly. No idea how long the investors can keep inflating this bubble now.
They already planned and built many data centers by then and will use them. It‘s going to be cloud services all the way. Desktops or even capable phones will be a thing of the past as everyone expects you to source out computing power to a subscription service. We will own nothing. It‘s peak capitalism.
the problem is that governments want AI for their surveillance bullshit, especially FSA. they will never let any of these companies fail, and in fact will have no problem blowing $Xbillion of taxpayer money to bail them out
also the fact that teh AI, like palintir can be programmed to be biased against “dissent” like protesters against israel, or palestine targets, or against the state, rather than “domestic terrorists”
I haven’t yet seen where use of AI hasn’t made things worse.
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Agents: Every instance of AI for “customer service” I’ve run into basically just closed cases for invalid reasons, spouted bullshit, and was used to block interacting with a real human, trapping users in infinite loops (thanks eBay) or disconnecting on them (thanks PayPal)
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Security: M365 seems to be relying heavily on this now, which means that the same phishing email which was successfully blocked last week will randomly get through a few times this week for no apparent reason
*Coding: sometimes useful, but also points to do stuff like reference functions that don’t actually exist in the API/language being used
I no longer deal with spam calls all day long because they get routed to Google Assistant/Gemini first and the AI agent filters the call for me. It has been pretty great like 99% of the time, I fully expect Google to kill it somehow.
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Local and self controled AI has some really cool applications. When I can afford it, replacing my home security cameras with something that stays local and not sent to the cloud is on my list of things to do. When I do that having a local AI do image recognition and tying it into my home assistant setup will be a cool project.
Yeah you need hardware for that. They’re making it so we can’t get hardware and we can’t self-host.
You don’t think China sees the vacuum left from the current players exiting consumer markets? The protectionism playbook that the US has run is catching up to bite us in the ass, which will be accelerated now that China has EUV.
That and I expect used enterprise hardware to continue to be sold. I have an old hotel check-in computer as my current router running OPNSense.
China “has EUV” lithography in the same way ASML had it in 2001:
ASML built its first working prototype of EUV technology in 2001, and told Reuters it took nearly two decades and billions of euros in R&D spending before it produced its first commercially-available chips in 2019.
They are still an awful long way behind the west in this regard.
I have multiple Reolink cameras and can recommend them. Everything can run completely locally with their app and the cameras blocked in the firewall while recording to a SD card. You can let the cameras connect to their servers for push notifications and remote access if you like (I unblock them in the firewall sometimes if I’m going to be away and want to access them).
The cameras have onboard ML that can detect humans, cars, pets, and motion, and it’s fully possible to leverage those events in HA, making a something like Frigate and a Coral TPU unnecessary.
Personally, I just use them with the app, as well as RTSP streams from VLC, though I did have local push notifications setup with HA in the past for human detection from my Reolink doorbell.
There’s the ai that works well, has many useful applications and reasonable hardware requirements, and there’s the generative ai fucking everything and not giving us a proportional return in usefulness
Do it! It’s super easy with Frigate addon for home assistant. There’s nice blueprints to handle the mobile notifications when you are out.
Look into Frigate
Keep that powder dry for the cheap RAM when the pendulum swings back.
I feel like some sort of scheme will be invented to fuck your average person over when that time comes.
Good joke, this.
Ugly, yes, but also cheap.
IDK, a lot of that data center AI hardware is built to self-destruct after a few years. It’s going to take time for the factories to retool before we see prices drop back down.
But we might scoop up loads of cheap RAM, hard drives and a nice GPU!
Unless you’re planning on buying the whole rack you’re not scooping up anything, except maybe the hard drives. The memory and GPUs are not consumer grade hardware. Some of the GPUs you technically could hook up to your PC, for example the Nvidia A6000, but its launch price was ~$4500 so even on the cheaper end you’re shelling out probably $3000 for a card that (out the box) is marginally better than the 4070ti. Most of the GPUs and pretty much all of the memory is not compatible with your standard consumer grade MoBos.
Yeah I was a bit ironic, like just wait plebs you might get to buy the used hardware when I’m done with it.
SOOO let’s start some new companies to increase the supply… ? Obviously?
too bad there isnt much of competition outside of nvidia, at least not that can match them.
Damn so we really aren’t always going to have calculators :'(
Data centers will consume…
No, data centers that are slated to be built say they’ll consume. If they don’t get built because they run out of funding or the bubble bursts, then they won’t consume. They’re trying really fucking hard to make fetch happen.
They’re trying really fucking hard to make fetch happen.
Which is dumb because neofetch, fastfetch, hyfetch, and uwufetch all already exist!
You think they allow prices to go down?
Watch this not ever really even touch the mobile phone market. The only computer they want you to have access to is the one they fully control…
Might want to keep an eye on !linuxphones@lemmy.ca. It’s time we take back control of that computing sector
I believe that if these AI hyperscaler facilities can’t get built or can’t pay their bills, the ram will likely not be usable for consumers if they get foreclosed on, since these companies are directly buying silicon wafers since it’s a cost cutting measure, so if they’re not built, most wafers could just stay like that, and if they are changed to work in their servers, I fully doubt they’ll use modules, since they could’ve just bought modules to save endless downtime before the facility actually starts making money for them.
Can we all buy cheap hardware when the bubble bursts and the billionaires decide not to pay the electricity bills for these ridiculous datacentres?
the AI chips are usable for regular consumers like you or me.
Unlike with the GPU shortage, where the cryptomining gpus could be used by regular consumers, the datacenter ram and so on is not usable on personal computers. It is all going to be e-waste, and we will still have a shortage after the bubble burst.
It’s possible someone would make it usable. A long time ago, I bought a laptop CPU that was soldered onto a board so it would go into a normal desktop socket. Guessing there was a glut of laptop CPUs at the time.
Yeah and the e-waste centers will clean up the hardware and resell it.
It’ll be a flood into the market. Supply and demand and all that.
While it won’t be usable by consumers, lots of businesses will happily scoop up a rack for their own servers. Not only will a ton of demand vanish, but a ton of supply appears at the same time.
is datacenter ram really not usable on personal PC’s? I figured it was the same as consumer ram but with ECC features, but I haven’t gone out of my way to try and buy any.
They’re using the new SOCAMM standard, which current consumer hardware can’t use.
It’s a different physical interface.
Whether it will end up coming to consumer grade motherboards… 🤷♂️
man that sucks.
Well that sucks. I assumed the ram, ssds, hdds could be recycled into useful forms.
Warning: spoiler
spoiler
No
Maybe we should manage these supply chain bottlenecks with AI.
