I’m just here with popcorn, don’t mind me.
Don’t go vegan. Don’t go crazy on meat either.
Eat Billionaires instead
Because I am failure.
I don’t have a kitchen, and most ready to eat food is non-vegan.
I am currently living either with parents or at dorm.
Parents are hoarders, so the kitchen can be considered out of service. There’s no space, and it’s far from food-safe.
The dorm kitchen is shared between ~20 people, and I don’t do well around those, so I haven’t used it. Plus the situation with electric appliances is complicated there. I’d have to somehow haul my own fridge over there. And get it approved first, so more human contact.
I also share a room with someone, so I just try to do least of anything over there.
As I only tend to eat once a day, this is economically doable.Our uni also has a cafeteria, but I haven’t yet been there because… I haven’t yet been there. I don’t know how it works. I tried observing others, but I see the order system is done using some touchscreen terminal, the UI of which I don’t know (I was watching from further away), and I couldn’t find any precise manual online. Actually, I couldn’t find any manual online.
im not vegan however i do want that animals would not be treated in the way most industrial farms treat them
Fair enough. Now do something about it….
I buy meat from local farmers who treat their animals well, when I choose to eat meat. Most of the time I just don’t eat meat.
You won’t take cheese and milk from me tho.
Is it 2012 again? I thought we’d grown past this dumb shit
We haven’t, there are still plenty of dumb carnists trying to frame vegans as extremists.
We don’t even think about you. The only time I hear vegan, despite eating mostly vegetarian is here with reddit/Lemmy screeching.
Hahahahahha. Just don’t comment on these posts then. It’s literally that easy. No one here wants to hear your baby vomit of an opinion. lol
Just don’t comment on these posts then. It’s literally that easy. No one here wants to hear your baby vomit of an opinion
Take your own advice
Posts a post from their point of view
Gets a comment from someone else point of view
“Why would you comment on a forum!?”
???
Vegan rule
I’m allergic to everything. Mushrooms, soy/tofu, tree nuts (but not peanuts), raw fruits (and some cooked), raw veggies.
I’m Mexican but even I can only eat so many beans in one week. I’ll stick with doin my best though.
I used to be allergic to soy and most fruits 20 years ago. Thankfully that calmed down and went away with most things.
Reducing meat intake and replacing it with veggies where you can does heaps for the environment. Your best is phenomenal, if everyone did your best, I bet the industries would adapt and offer more alternatives you aren’t allergic to, so you had more choice to evolve what “your best” is.
Sadly this is probably going to be a generational change, multi generational even, so please don’t chastise yourself for not being able to do more.
Me for example, I try to use vegan/vegetarian ingredients where I can but I’m lazy and also eat meat every 2-3 days. The moment I learn of a new lazy healthy product that tastes good I introduce it to my diet, it’s a slow process lol.
To the non vegans willing to approach this with an open mind:
I would highly recommend you to watch this.
Ethical reasons aside, if you do care about the environment and climate change, then vegan diets have a much much lower negative environmental impact.
If you’re smart with it, then vegan diets tend to be a lot cheaper too! Most humans are lactose intolerant. Maybe you are too. If you are, then switching to vegan milks could mean less gases, farts and bloating. It’s quite comfortable to not have all that…
That being said, if you do switch to a vegan diet, you would quite likely need vitamin supplementation (at least I do).
Fun fact: People who eat meat from factory farming (virtually every meat eater) also rely on vitamin supplementation.
Only with extra steps: The cattle get the supplements. Cause they don’t graze on lush natural meadows anymore, they’re fed mostly corn.
It tastes good and finding good vegan cheese is a struggle
Yeah, ive reduced my meat intake so most days i eat no meat at all, and when I do its only one meal a day that has mest in it generally. And the meat i do eat is like 85% chicken 10% fish 5% other. Drink only oat milk. But i cannot give cheese up :(
I dont intend to go vegan anyways though. Not in our current society, with the options and prices etcetc. But i also dont actually think eating meat is inherently immoral. And esp not drinking milk or eating cheese. I do think the conditions we currently have causing them to suffer is. And the ecological ramifications are immense.
People love to pretend eating vegan is so easy. But youre absolutely going to be giving up time, effort, and money to make that diet work while also culling a lot of things you enjoy that make you happy.
I’ve tried every vegan cheese in Norway and they are all horrible.
I used to be a cheese addict. Very happy to be craving-free today.
It’s not easy being cheesey 😔
It’s expensive, I like cheese, I like baked goods that don’t involve chickpea water, I occasionally like meat, I like mead, all vegan cheese is truly awful.
Also any meat substitutes are always substituents for highly processed fast food which I don’t eat anyway. As far as I’m aware there’s no vegan alternative to coffee encrusted venison with a red wine reduction.
Also don’t get me wrong, I do eat vegan food, I’m just not prepared to exist exclusively on it.
Also eating meat doesn’t make you a bad person. There are like 8 people in the world whose company I can tolerate for more than a few minutes and two of them are obligate carnivores.
It’s really not more expensive unless you’re doing stuff like, quitting hot dogs then eating vegan special hot dogs, or buying vegan branded goods, or eating out at vegan branded restaurants, or tons of vegan ground beef and cheese. You would want to make more whole food recipes that use cheap ingredients.
In fact it’s way cheaper if you’re making beans and rice and veggies from scratch. It’s essentially the cheapest diet you can have if you do it that way. Poor diets are usually beans and rice, or lentils and stuff like that. And not canned beans, but make beans in a crock pot or something.
A little bit of meal prep goes a very long way at making it the cheapest diet you can eat while still having good nutrition and protein. I’ll cook up two pounds of dry black or pinto beans and eat it throughout the week. Doesn’t take much effort at all either, especially with an instant pot.
True enough. I do eat a lot of beans and stuff and on occasion tofu, tempeh, and other such things. But I don’t like them enough to completely cut animal products from my diet. The same way that I wouldn’t cut beans from my diet to eat meat every day. I do try to stick to what I consider more ethical sources of meat (if I can afford it).
Btw
Says “Money” so makes sense
You’ve gotta screw up pretty bad to make veganism the more expensive option.
Vegan food is cheaper because instead of growing soy and using it to raise a whole animal then kill and process it, the soy just feeds people instead.
I can get 100g of protein from chicken or fish for dirt cheap, and it’s delicious.
What would be the cheapest way to get 100g of protein from vegan options?
That seems to be a nice article https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/protein-for-vegans-vegetarians#beans
First easiest replacements seem to be lentils and beans, though not as high protein content as chicken breast or just protein powder. Products were primarily chosen based on price, cheapest available and as equal terms as possible. Excluded fish(tuna and salmon) as I’m lazy and the price of those already ranges in 12-17€/kg on the low end and protein content isn’t that much higher than chicken.
Beans 100g, 121cal/0,7g fat/17g carbs/8g protein. 4,65€/kg
Lentils 100g, 119cal/1g fat/15g carbs/8g protein. 4,13€/kg Both were chosen stored in salt water for easier comparison as oddly beans are only available in salt water, canned or frozen while lentils are primarily available as dried goods.
Chicken breast 100g 104cal/1,6g fat/0,3 carbs/22g protein. 7,99€/kg
Whey protein powder 100g 417cal/7g fats/5,5g carbs/80g protein. 33,3€/kg
You have to replace prices yourself based on your location and on availability.
Surprisingly per kg, lentils and beans are cheaper. Though to get 100g of protein, id say below minimum requirement, more are required.
Beans 1,25kg of beans to get 100g of protein, in addition 8,7g fat, 212g carbs, 1512cal. Total price 5,81€.
Lentils. 1,25kg for 100g of protein, in addition 12,5g fat, 187g carbs, 1487cal. Total price 5,16€.
Chicken breast, 454g for 100g of protein, in addition 7,2g fat, 1,3g of carbs. 472 cal. Total price 3,62€.
Protein powder 125g for 100g of protein. In addition 8,7g fat. 6,2g carbs. 521cal. Total price 4,16€
Well, chicken breast is the cheapest source of protein, but protein powder is the least volume so probably easiest to consume.
Though chicken breast and protein powder would need some source of carbs to accompany it which would increase the price of total meal, but beans and lentils wouldn’t.
So we get back to the original point of having varied diet and it should be good enough. No point to add extra layer of complexity for minimal difference to an activity that’s already annoying enough by leaning towards any extreme.
Seagull I ran over with my car: free
That’s the spirit. Though cleaning it will be a pain in the ass.
Seitan powder. You can get 100g of protein for less than a dollar, and it tastes however you want it to. I tend to add some better than bouillon and a little oil to the mixture (still less than a dollar) before steaming it, then use it like deli meat or spam, but there are a lot of different techniques and you can use whatever’s best for you.
That’ll do the trick
Beans.
You’d need ~1.2kg of beans for that
That’s 3 cans, where I live that costs a lot more than 400g of chicken. And it would suck to eat that much beans.
400g of chicken costs €4,90 here.
Canned kidney beans would be €3,25 for 1,25kgs, dried it would only cost you €2,90.
Don’t know how crazy US meat subsidies are, but here it’s definitely still cheaper to get protein from plants 🤷🏼
Edit: Dried chickpeas are just €2,- for the same amount of protein, weird. And those are the organic ones, probably still way cheaper in bulk.
Devils Advocate: Some reasons outweigh others.
The list of why you should never get on a airplane is also very long.
Most common reason and arguably the real reason for most people not wanting to be vegan:
“But meat tastes so good, and I neeeed my pRoTEiN”
My reason is that I tried it, after focusing my attention on researching micronutrients for weeks, making an elaborate meal plan that covers everything, and taking supplements.
After 4 weeks, I felt hungry no matter how much I ate, and then I found a tuft of my hair in the shower sink.
I then ate a blue rare steak and it felt like a rush of euphoria and relief.I don’t know what I was missing, but after so much research I was pretty sure I couldn’t figure it out.
So now I’m a “weekday vegan” + an occasional piece of blue cheese, meat or liver, and I’m feeling fine.Same is true for Flying:
“Sure Flying burns huge amounts of fuel, releases greenhouse gases high in the atmosphere, and contributes to the climate damage, but my holidays and travel time is more important”
You’re just making a convincing case for not flying and changing habits / traditions to suit.
And calling out some hypocrisies.
Most people are only willing to make sacrifices for animals/the-environment as long as it suites their lifestyle.
OMG I’ll never eat fish that’s murder. 😡
12h+ flight flight to go on holiday 🥺👉👈 Whoopsie
I’m not vegan or vegeterian. But I feel like that “unless you are doing both” is kinda a wrong argument to make, even almost bad faith.
Because i could say “ah so you are anti work abuse? Curious, you are using a phone made by leveraging abuse”
I think a more honest argument would be to weight the possibilities and the outcomes.
Producing meat does increase the carbon footprint, and the same can be said for flying.
The idea is, how much can beign vegan reduce this footprint, and how much removing unnecessary flights can save? So overall, how much i am saving doing one of those, instead of both?
Also, eating is an everyday activity, flying usually isn’t (in the example you reported)
I have no answers, i just didn’t like the argument
Fair enough,
The point I’m trying to make is there are many ways to live more ethically, If you’re a vegan but fly a private jet, you don’t give a fuck about the environment, you’re just pretending you do.
You could also not be a vegan and care more about the environment than a lot of vegans.
I knew a militant vegan who removed the emissions filter from his diesel car, and tuned it to ‘roll coal’ (emit tons of smoke) because he thought it was cool.
There’s a lot of nuance
Yeah we can agree on that one, of course cognitive dissonance is a thing so it’s ok to point it out. (I love animals but i eat meat, so I’m a perfect example)
The important thing is trying to remain civil, and looking for a discussion, rather than trying to dunk on one idea or the other (this in particular to vegans too)
fly a private jet,
Whom on Lemmy does that apply to?
Anyway, the point being made here is to make better decisions where reasonably possible. If you dive deep enough, absolutely nothing is fully ethical.Like cleaning up your drive. You have little storage left, so you do a scan with Filelight.
Do you care about:
a) 1,000 20KiB config files
b) 40GiB pacman cache
c) 50GiB of musicYou can probably just get rid of pacman cache, but with the size, you might just as well get rid of your music, no? What’s the point of removing pacman cache if your music is worse?
Both are “money”
Price, availability and easiest to balance. Not much more needed to choose omnivore diet. Eating is already annoying enough chore, no point to make it more difficult.
Imagine not even caring about your own health and using that to also not care about animals and the environment. Do something for the greater good today. It might make a difference in your own life too.
Balanced omnivore diet is considered good enough for your health. Even currently popular, generally considered as the healthiest diet, Mediterranean diet includes lean meats and dairy. Or even WHOs recommendations include lean meats and dairy and a higher intake of it for athletes. Though yeah much less than an average American might eat and significantly less red meats. Glad I’m not from US and red meat is already rather expensive here.
As for the greater good, yeah sure. Just like with “toughts and prayers” and “essential worker” or pat on the back/warm handshake. As soon as i can pay with those in the store or send some of it to the electric company or even if the government would accept it as a replacement to taxes.
Good enough can be good for some. Obviously personal choice, etc. But relatively good health when compared to those that are suffering more is not a satisfactory measure of your own health.
If you feel you’re doing enough, that’s fine. But you’re using the health issues and habits of others to rationalize your own choices. WHO also says veganism is good for all stages of life and lists deli meat as carcinogenic and red meat as most likely carcinogenic to humans.
The sad part here is that you don’t think positive action is reasonable if there’s no monetary payout or benefit. You sound like a sad capitalist who needs to look at the system they’re (seemingly begrudgingly) upholding.
I completely agree, but that’s because the average bar is really low. No point to compare anything against that.
Though good enough doesn’t imply that it’s a comparison to anyone else or the general public. Good enough is sufficient for a specific need or circumstances, though not perfect. It indicates a threshold has been met where the results are functional enough with further improvements providing minimal benefits.
From the perspective of diet, good enough would be something that gets all the necessary nutrients in with minimal health consequences while supporting daily activities and being easily accessible and affordable.
Depending of the time of the year, 75-90% of my diet consist of oats, potatoes, buckwheat, rice, pasta as the main source of carbs and bulk of the calories. Chicken breast or lean cuts of pork and dairy products for protein and fats to support repair and growth from training and hormonal functions. Cucumbers, tomatoes, paprika, pickles, onions, carrots, garlic for the vitamins and volume and some fruits as a quick carb source before training sessions. All of it is always easily available and oftentimes on a sale and most of it can be bought in bulk then. While being super easy and fast to prepare. Bloodwork and health check-ups done multiple times a year are always in order, there aren’t any significant issues with daily energy levels neither are there any daily tasks i have difficulties with. As most of it does go under whole foods so the long term health risks should be minimal as well.
Rest is filled with junk, snacks or social events.
It’s not perfect, but it’s good enough. Though of course I’m open to any criticisms towards it.
So I’m not against veganism or in any way saying it’s bad, it would just go against the good enough principle by adding in an extra layer of complexity with minimal benefits.
The energy required to maintain that extra layer of complexity can be used in other aspects of life to once again achieve or maintain good enough results.As for the last part. I didn’t invent that system, I’m just playing around in it with available resources. Though yeah, positive action is kinda meaningless and does jackshit, at least in the current system.
that’s a very small list. i got trouble reading it. could someone read it for me?🥺👉👈
Says “money”
It just says “racism”, wonder what that’s about.
?
