The overall technology of EV is better than ICE but that doesn’t mean every EV is better than every ICE.
Cars may be better than horses but no horse ever exploded the way a Ford Pinto would.
It also has the added benefit of watching you all the time!
Not exclusive to EVs though
You can barely get an EV old enough not to do it, if at all. You can easily get an ICE old though though
But yes, it’s all new cars.
I paid $6000 cash for my current car about eight years ago. I’m retired, so I only drive it about once a week. I’ve put less than 2000 miles per year on it. Also, no cameras, no screen, no phone app, no nothing I don’t need or want.
There’s no way I’m buying a $30,000 car, both because I couldn’t afford it, and because what I have fits my needs perfectly.
So, are EVs “just better”? For some people, or maybe most, I imagine so. But, no, not for me, not unless the VW boss wants to give me one for free.
Apples and Oranges my firend.
You can also buy used ev’s for less than $6k.
The arguement wasnt about price, its about what is a better vehicle for the average driver.
I love cars, and im mourning the death of the manual transmission. But i bought an EV for my daily. Its just a better daily use car. Less maintenance, lots of convenience, no extra cost in gass prices and technically faster than my toy car. It doesnt give me the driving experience i want, but grabbing takeout, or sitting in traffic, its just better.
I have no doubts about electric cars being nice or “the future”, but the price of these things is still a problem.
A (reasonably) new one with the range I need (~400km+) costs way more than I care to spend. That is partly because batteries still cost too much, but also very much because they still have a tendancy to gatekeep larger range figures for use in luxury cars.
And getting older second hand is still too much a questionmark in terms of how much of a chance there be you’ll end up having to fork over big for a new battery or motor and/or write it off prematurely.
Another problem is that I also have no way to charge it at home and would be fully at the mercy of public charging infrastructure. And generally speaking as a taller man, I feel some of them can also be quite lacking in terms of interior space.
Why do you need 400km+ range? Is this for a daily/weekly need or a once in a quarter holiday trip style need?
There’s already so many ev cars in scrap yards due to being mechanically totaled from dead batteries it’s not worth buying one unless you plan to lease or budget for a new battery/motor after the warranty is out. ICE cars at the price of EV cars still last way longer, and can be maintained to continue running without a mandatory motor replacement after a certain number of miles/hours.
Source?
Loljk no u don’t
It takes a really, really long time for EV batteries to “die.” They absolutely degrade and lose range over time, but you should still be getting significant usable mileage out of them. This sounds like unfounded propaganda to me.
Do you have any source for this? EVs have so much fewer parts which need maintenance or could reasonably have to be replaced. Also batteries these days are gonna last for a long time judging from what I’ve seen.
I see some of the pain points from the original commentator, but it’s partially an unequal comparison, because many people compare used ICE cars to new EVs. But your comment is stating it like it’s snake oil.
I own a 12 year old volt. One of the community apps tracks crowd sourced battery degradation. My pack’s still about 75%-80% of it’s new range. I’m in the center of the bell curve, drive mostly on electric, but it can’t quite make it all the way to/from work anymore. :(
Chevy did a decent job at battery cooling. There are plenty of Nissan leafs that didn’t fair as well.
If I did have to replace my pack right now, (and it’s only a 10kWh) it would be around 8k, but they’re generally not available. None of the used packs on ebay have any assurance that they have any significant life left.
Bluebook on the car is maybe 5k but that is a hybrid. 8k would essentially total the car. If i did manage to get a remanufactured pack (assuming it lasted another decade) it’s still going to need wheelbearings, axels, suspension, steering, HVAC.
Just because an EV’s motor can last longer, doesn’t mean it makes a significantly better long term investment.
I have a 12 year old ICE car @ 172,000 miles and it needs none of those wheel bearings, axels, suspension and HVAC fixes. I would not bundle regular car issues with EV issues since it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer (and even model & year).
The high cost of a battery replacement compared to the cost of the car after a few years is a concern which is seems very relevant though.
Talking about battery replacement for EV is like talking about engine replacement for ICE.
“Sure, ICE car are nice but the high cost of engine replacement after a few 100k km is a concern”
Batteries in today’s EV can last way longer than people expect, changing the battery is really not something that will be fine regularly, not more than changing the engine in current ice car.
Your location likely is helping the cause. Any car that has live life in a big city where it might snow will eat shit every day on rough roads.
Also, I don’t know a single soul who thinks they need to replace their shocks or struts. They wear out and the car is mostly fine as long as you’re driving peacefully. However, if you ever need to brake quickly or dodge something, those worn suspension components will greet you by not responding well and you could end up having a bad day.
Remember folks, your shocks and struts are a wear item. They usually wear out around 70k. Lower for hard city life, higher for glassy roads. No matter what, they do wear out, even if you’re not aware of it.
Luckily they test shock/strut function at the annual inspection. If it’s below a certain percentage, your car fails.
If they don’t do mandatory inspection in your country, you’re sharing the roads with death traps that could crash into you at any moment because who knows if they even have brakes. In that case, who cares about worn struts?
Anyway, from experience, original struts are usually good for 200-300k km but I’ve seen more than that and still good. On mostly German cars. Of course if you see an oil leak from a strut you should get that pair replaced immediately. At that kind of mileage, you get a handling improvement if you replace them before outright failure, but they’re not actually dangerous at anything resembling sensible driving.
If I could trade my current car for a feature similar EV for no more than a coupld of grand out of pocket, I would.
Home charging, silence, no gas payments, and instant torque control for a couple of grands? Sounds like a sweet deal.
Its ugly, but you can ger bmw i3’s for less than 5K. If you just want a people mover…
Can i work on it? It’s it as serviceable as my Subaru? Are the parts as cheap? Cost of ownership seems to be a topic no one talks about.
People talk about that topic all the time.
The drive train generally doesn’t need service. You don’t have to change oil, you don’t have to change transmission fluid, your transmission probably won’t grind itself into metallic dust because the transmission is a single speed and it’s certainly not a CVT. You don’t have a timing belt to change, or a serpentine belt to change, or an air filter to change. You don’t have to sweat an emissions problem, you don’t have to worry about error codes about running too rich or too lean. You don’t have to worry about your headgasket leaking. You don’t have a bay of stuff heated to around water’s boiling point for extended durations accelerating wear on various hoses. You aren’t going to have a belt tensioner go south, the DC/DC converter is less likely to lose it than an alternator. You won’t need to replace spark plugs, you aren’t going to have a turbo that screws you over.
Instead of all of that, you have a pretty bullet proof drive train except that the battery will chemically wear, but even that seems to be not as bad as believed with battery management systems babying the batteries. The car almost certainly weighs too much, which will manifest in handling and tire wear.
And of course, there’s gas v. electric. If (and sadly only if) you charge at home, an EV in my area is roughly like having a hybrid and $1.00/gallon gas. If you charge publicly… yeah that’s priced really high.
So at one point, there will likely be a huge single expense for the battery. However, that is instead of frequent oil and air filter changes, occasional belt replacement, and a host of likely repairs that a gas car generally incurs over that sime time. One very big expense at once instead of tons of little expenses and a few big expenses.
If the initial cost of the vehicle were competitive, hands down the EV is going to be the right choice if you can charge at home. Trickier question in an apartment or renter’s scenario.
That’s ignoring the very common issues multiple models have where the coolant leaks into the motor and you need a new motor/transmission unit. You really have to do your research on the exact model you’re buying.
And research battery pack repairability. New pack costs more than a used car, but in some, single cells can be replaced if needed. It’s rarely every multiple cells that fail, but if a single one does, the battery is nearly useless.
Hmm discussed recently just on Lemmy here: https://news.mit.edu/2026/us-drivers-electric-vehicles-offer-emissions-benefits-cost-savings-0512
I talk about cost of ownership but the ICE and fossil hordes try to silence us. Hiding the truth is part of their business model: “Only look at the sticker price and buy a new car each year to max out depreciation losses.”
Make it affordable and I’ll buy one tomorrow.
Let’s talk VW specific. I would absolutely love an ID.Buzz. But you made the fucking thing SIXTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.
The car is also unnecessarily big, it feels like
I wanted a Ferrari, but they made the fucking thing 6 HUNDRED AND 40 THOUSAND DOLLARS.
Did VW ever implement one pedal drive? Total non starter for me a few years ago (got a volvo instead).
There’s B mode that will aggressively regenerate, but nowhere close to one pedal. Although I’ve found myself using the adaptive cruise control for no pedal drive
They still have a break pedal, if that is what you mean.
You probably don’t even know how much you’ve spent in gasoline and repairs for the ICE cars you’ve owned.
I calculated this. Came out to somewhwre under $5k to drive my Golf 4 for like 8 years including the buying price. But yea whatever floats your electric boat big dog.
$5k doesn’t buy 8 years of gasoline. Also, note that it’s always the gasoline people who think using names like “big dog” is a good idea.
My wife’s plug-in hybrid charging (at home) costs the same as fuel for an ICE vehicle that gets 60mpg running 87 octane. Electricity is cheaper, but it’s also not free.
you might want to re-check your math.
Condolences to your wife. The rest of us are very happy with our PHEVs. Electricity is not free? Are you saying nuclear plants, hydro-dams, power grids and wind turbines aren’t free? Ok I’ll keep that in mind, thanks!
Not where I live. All those charges for the use of their electricity here. I definitely do not have space to set up my own personal nuclear reactor on my patio. Not even sure I could scavenge enough free materials to build it, even if I found free designs/blueprints.
An uncle on my mother’s side used to hike in the backwoods with a wheelbarrow and a pitchfork to get materials. On a good day, he’d have a nuke reactor done by dinner. I assumed it was free but who am I to know.
What are you driving that gets 60 MPG?
A 300cc motorcycle
Is that some kind of gotcha or something?
The average car buyer does not want to buy an expensive EV just to have an EV and will buy a $40k Toyota Sienna before they buy a $60k VW ID.Buzz.
Pretty easy to grasp…It’s not rocket surgery. Make affordable EVs and not upmarket EVs and people will buy them. China figured that out.
That extra $20k is for the EV’s battery. If you don’t spend it there, you’ll spend it on gasoline and ICE maintenance. Look at life cycle cost. Total costs over 8-10 years of ownerership. The average buyer will have less noise, less emissions, instant torque control, home charging, and cost savings if they keep the EV long enough.
You have a rough point, but a $20k delta is too much. Thankfully, the comparison is between a “special” car and a boring workhorse, so the price delta isn’t reflective of the practical choices. 7-passenger PV5 looks to be about $50k, so less than $10k delta between a Sienna and a comparable EV van. Still a pretty big gap, especially to take up front, but closer to reasonable given your reasons. We are seeing the gap close more aggressively in the 5-passenger segment, but 3-row still has been focused on EV only for ‘premium’ experience.
Lack of noise and emissions, instant torque control, and the possibility to charge at home are indeed premium experiences. A lot of ICE pushers are trying to get a free lunch here.
Sure, those are premium things, but don’t actually drive the manufacturer’s cost as those come mostly for free.
So it drives bigger margin for them instead, but at the expense of people perceiving EV as somehow fundamentally too expensive.
They’re inherent in the battery system. The manufacturer’s costs are in the battery. Propulsion, silence, no-emissions, instant torque, and home charging are the features we get with a battery whether we like it or not (no downside really). Price-wise, there is no point in talking about them separately. ICE pushers apparently forget the other features of the package. Manufactures must obviously charge a price for the package.
Even assuming those numbers are accurate it’s irrelevant. If I don’t have $60,000 then I can’t buy a $60,000 car even if it would be a sound investment over the long run.
If you insist on buying a car new instead of second-hand, that’s on you.
Dude I’m only using your numbers.
$40k and $60k are YOUR numbers. I subtracted YOUR numbers to get 20k.
The used market isn’t much better. I can’t afford a $26,000 EV with 100k miles on it. That’s insane.
sounds like you want a free car.
A higher budget surely allows for more options and less excuses. In my view, anyone with a 50k budget has no excuse to choose ICE over EV.
That extra $20k is for the EV’s battery.
People need to stop quoting Elon Musk. That was true in 2012. Buzz battery is 90kwhr, the cost of batteries is now $120/kWh. So the whole pack costs $11k. Funny how with ICE now one quotes the cost of a catalytic system or how much mining goes on for the platinum and rhodium in cats. ID Buzz is overpriced, plus it’s not even good. It’s a small van.
I’d like to preface all of the following with something: a vehicle should account for no more than 10% of a household user’s budget, some say up to 15% but most of the literature I’ve seen puts it at or under 10% to maintain fiscal responsibility. That’s monthly ofc, and puts the total budget somewhere around $1,200-1,400 on most of these cars
So how many people do you know who make between $120,000-140,000 per driver?
Some of us do, most of us don’t
I know plenty of people who cannot and or will not for various reasons ever make that much in their lifetimes
Let’s say a 19 year old getting their first car without support. You think they can afford a 60k car? Hell even a 40k? At +6% apr? They still need a car and not all of us have or had parents to help us foot that bill
How about even a used one ran into the dirt at 20-25k to “establish credit”? Think that’s a good idea either for someone like that? Its a terrible one
Further, if literally anything goes wrong with the battery before it’s paid off but out of warranty… Then what? File bankruptcy at 20-25? Take the credit hit and be unable to buy another vehicle or, or get student loans, or be able to get a mortgage because your credit is shot?
No matter if the payback even makes sense we have prime examples that the economy is down right hostile to EV owners with the EV tax road hike increases forcing EV users to pay up to 10x road “gas” tax equivalents of what petrol does in the US regardless if they drive 1,000 miles in a year or 40,000
Plain and simple, all commuter/work vehicles are not worth $40,000-60,000. They are grossly overpriced and have been since at least 2020
The $70,000 GMC EV work truck trim with 450 miles of range? That’s worth $45,000 max. The Tesla model 3 dual motor (which I paid $60,000 for new in 2023 btw) are worth $35,000 max brand new top trim model and has never been worth more than that despite the insane market gauntlet we’ve been run through
The person you are responding to is not even slightly wrong
Vehicles are grossly overpriced.
Front loading potential savings is not an acceptable practice in an economy where people do not have the option to go without a vehicle to function. Prices needs to crater. Companies need to be making any profits they do make off the back of quantity sold, and off government subsidies and cutting out middle men not massive margins per lesser quantities of vehicles at our expense, because as things stand they’re making their margins off of government bailouts anyways and consumers are perpetually the ones getting bent since taxes are our money and these incompetents are increasingly demanding more and more of it
I don’t think you wrote all of that just for me.
I didnt write it 🙃
VTT with a bit of editing removing punctuation and breaking up blocks of text
LLMs are useful for some things
Only if someone cares to read it.
China figured that out.
This isn’t an issue with electric vehicles its an issue with EV’s from traditional ICE based car companies, and the governments refusal to subsidize their purchase or the companies that manufacture them.
Sure, they have to buy their batteries from China, who probably enjoys that profit margin. Traditional ICE based car companies dug their own graves by insisting on staying at the starting line for 20 years, pushing their ICE garbage instead of supporting local refinining.
Traditional ICE based car companies dug their own graves by insisting on staying at the starting line for 20 years, pushing their ICE garbage instead of supporting local refinining.
Nope. Joe Biden spent billions on battery valley to make batteries in the USA, then you idiots re-elected Trump and he put your asses back in the stone age. That’s why Detroit is fucked. Then, he tariffed any imported batteries.
Yeah shame. Take out all the tech bullshit I dont want and I bet that number gets cut nearly in half. Abs, efi, maybe airbags if you want.
We can make simple vehicles. They just refuse to. Becuase simple won’t break and be unrepairable by the end user. Gotta jeep those stealerships in business with proprietary tools.
In short, with late stage capitalism you will never have a good car again.
As much as I love my EV I’ll keep my horse au naturel…
Can they make real cars and not stupid egg crossovers?
People are only buying crossovers. Don’t blame car companies for making cars people buy.
I’d argue that crossovers are the “default” type of car now. They really are just hatch/wagon cars with some different styling and typically a slightly higher suspension.
Also: I’m glad people here are saying “crossover” rather than “SUV”. They are not the same.
I want the old 3-door hatchbacks to come back. Like how the civic hatchback used to be.
Smol car with a PHAT ASS.
I’m so damn sick of ugly ass crossovers.
I’m only interested when the vehicles are simple and affordable and the charging stations are fast and ubiquitous.
The simple bit is already done, EVs require way less upkeep. The affordable bit is done as well, those ones are just banned to “protect domestic auto markets” (depending on where in the world you live).
The fast ubiquitous charging is still very location dependent. In CA I have no issue finding chargers on roadtrips. I imagine TX is not the same. If you happen to have access to a charger at home or work then 99% of your problems are solved.
Which will be 20 years.
People seem to forget gas cars took 50+ years to become widely adopted. They were not really accessible to the middle and lower classes until after WW2.
For some reason people here just want to scream and moan and browbeat anyone who doesn’t want to buy an EV today, when they are unaffordable, inconvenient, and make zero sense unless all you do is commute to work and run local errands. Lots of vehicles are used for different purposes.
I wouldn’t call any car affordable these days so that’s a moot point. The rest of your description of EVs is not accurate at all. I drive an EV long distances across rural Montana regularly. If it works for me I can guarantee it would work wherever you are.
I’m not you. There are no ev charging stations in rural areas where I go. it’s just woods.
You can already drive cross country in almost any EV. There are more charging stations in my area than there are gas station.
Mechanically, EVs are very simple. Cost and “complexity” (app, touchscreens, etc) are rampant in ICE cars today as well, so buying one of those won’t really make a difference there either.
Yea I’m all for simplicity. But honestly a modern EV is probably LESS complex than a modern ice. They all have the same complexities with stupid computers for every component (body control modules, “infotainment” crap, hell vw likes to have a module in each door and each seat to controll door locks windows etc) but Ice also had complications of an engine. I love gas engines I’m a gear head, but let me be the first to tell u that there’s a LOT less going on in an electric drivetrain than a gasser. Sure the control modules for evs are computers in of themselves, but a modern auto drivetrain has a computer for the engine and a sperate computer for / in the transmission, plus they both have computers for abs/tc and interior crap and cameras etc. My hurdle to adopting electric is their so goddamned expensive that they can’t outweigh oil, gas, and service costs yet. (If you disagree about that, that’s another conversation. I drive sub 3k$ cars when I have to but mainly ride motorcycles and do my own work so no there isn’t a way to get around cheaper in an EV than an ice for me yet)
My hurdle to adopting electric is their so goddamned expensive that they can’t outweigh oil, gas, and service costs yet.
Yeah, that is the real issue with EVs, and probably the only complaint I’ve seen in all these comments that is valid.
It shocks people when I tell them this, but I did NOT buy an EV to save money. In most situations, buying a new (to you) car will cost you more than fixing the old car many times over. So I’m not shocked that I’m paying more for the EV. I’m more shocked that with the insane cost of gas lately, my EV is getting close to breaking even on monthly driving cost compared to my partner’s civic.
I think it’s funny that the complaint people bring up in these kinds of threads; that EVs aren’t that “green”, that they are unreliable, that charging is inconvenient, or that they aren’t practical… is completely wrong, and people who have EVs love them because they are exactly the opposite of that.
Will the other reason that I can’t get and EV is because I have no way of charging it at home so I’d be 100% reliant on public charges and they cost a fortune because they overcharge for the electricity.
I did the math for my EV. Even the expensive fast charging station near me came out to be only about 25% of the cost my old ICE car would get for gas on a per mile basis. The slower level 2 chargers typically cost substantially less than that, but are really only worth it if you were going to park in a lit that had them anyway.
is completely wrong
is it?
Tesla sells the least reliable vehicles you can buy right now.
and
They also have the highest crash rate.
And
The newer models have the battery pack glued into the frame, cannot be replaced, just junked. All models have a cast aluminum frame that is brittle in crashes and cannot be repaired, leading to more write-offs, more junk.
Tesla making unreliable cars doesn’t mean that EV is an inherently unreliable technology.
People complain about hybrids because they add more parts and complexity, which people assume makes them less reliable. Yet Toyota hybrids are consistently rated as among the most reliable vehicles you can buy.
My point is that the brands and their QC standards are really important.
Wow… Sounds like one brand of cars known for having QC problems has QC problems.
The module in each door is actually a cost saving - All you gotta send to the door is canbus/linbus, power, ground and an optical cable from the headunit for (potentially) an in-door amplifier.
What it is is a fucking headache I put a Passat module in a Jetta then the door lock button operated the window lmfao. Thankfully they don’t really go bad often !
First, you buy a charger at home. Then you don’t need any more. Or you drive from charger to charger. You just don’t get it.
The problem is that modern cars are shitty. It doesn’t matter if it’s a petrol, diesel or electric car. If I can’t repair it myself, it’s a poor quality car. The fact that you might need specialized paywalled software to remove error codes after fixing the car is just awful.
Most people I’ve spoken with that claim that they don’t like electric cars eventually agree that they don’t like modern cars. Mainly due to how closed everything is.
Repairing doesn’t even really apply to evs. It’s not like you bust out a wrench to fix your tv.
It does. Brakes, suspension. Lights wipers window motors etc, all that shit breaks.
And when I need a fucking dealer computer to “unlock” it to fix my brakes or a broken window motor, fuck that shit.
Doesn’t the door opening mechanisms on Tesla’s famously break all of the time?
EVs still have a ton of shit that will invariably break and need repairing/replacement at some point. A huge amount stuff I’ve had to fix on my cars had nothing to do with the engine/transmission and are universal on road vehicles: Brakes, rust, wipers, plastic in direct sunlight, digital displays, head lights, dozens of belts and motors that run on tracks, mechanical doors, AC.
Most of which can be repaired with a stop at parts store and a couple of common tools IF the manufacturer hasn’t locked it behind some bullshit security bolt or a lockout chip.
If a TV cost $60k, I’d bust out a wrench to fix it. It’s usually a blown capacitor that costs pennies to fix.
CRTs are easily repairable with like 3 tools in most cases. Many are 30 years old and never been maintained properly still going. Flat screens are Another example of modern tech being shit for longevity and repairability.
Yeah, vendo lock in is what has stopped me from purchasing a BYD seal
EVs are fantastic, but fuck VW with a rusty spoon. They are in talks withbIsrael to build weapon components for them.
Literally every single person that I talked to that seriously tried an EV (like, as a daily driver for some time, not just the rental you had for a day) said they were never going back to combustion engines.
Yeah, I drive an EV and will never go back to gas.
I mean maybe if I had a project car or something but even then my thoughts drift towards how I might swap an electric drivetrain…
Can confirm. Bought one, loved it, so bought another. Would never consider going back.
If I could afford one and could somehow figure out a way to charge it at home so I wasn’t relying on public charges then I would already have an EV.
The trouble is at least in my country the infrastructure is just not there, there will be like two chargers in a supermarket car park for 500 plus cars, and the markup on electricity is ridiculous.
For a lot of people EVs are just not practical yet, the issues that people have with them aren’t really to do with the cars themselves but all of the ancillary stuff surrounding them. E.g. my local mechanic has explicitly told me he can’t do EVs because he would have to buy all sorts of software products to be able to perform maintenance on them. That’s got to change that’s a ridiculous artificial lockout from the companies.
Also quite a lot of people don’t want a sporty car EV they would like other car types, and those don’t seem to really be provided by the manufacturers yet.
The trouble is at least in my country the infrastructure is just not there
When I read that I just assumed you’d live in some developing country or an extremely sparsely populated one like Canada.
But… You live in the UK?
I don’t have an EV, but I can imagine it would be nice to not have to go to the gas station once a week.
I’ve had an EV for a couple of years and had to rent a gas car on a trip recently. I was prepared for the expensive fuel, I wasn’t prepared for how shit it was to drive.
See, an EV’s electric motor and (usually) single reduction gear means you get basically the same acceleration between 5 km/h and 120 km/h. You can put your foot down slightly and forget you’re accelerating because it feels just like sitting in a stationary car on a hill. How far you push the accelerator is how much acceleration you get. Unless you’re getting wheel spin or you’re at the car’s power limit, that’s all there is to it.
A gasser has an engine with different performance depending on RPM and a gearbox that provides different performance based on which gear it’s in and changes according to it’s own logic. You’re just used to this when you drive one all the time, but for me it was awful the way I’d put my foot down and get nothing, then engine noise, then some power, then a lurch and more power and another lurch and less power. The accelerator pedal is a suggestion, mostly disconnected from what the car actually chooses to do.
Yes! About a year ago we went up a very curvy hill with the kids that has, in the past, always made everyone feel queasy, even the driver to some extent. But this year, it didn’t at all. I think it was because we were driving an EV, and without all of the hurky-jerky of the nonexistent transmission, it was way smoother.
I feel like that whenever I’m driving my parents petrol car, when I’m used to my diesel car. It’s exactly the same car it’s just got a different engine, but it does totally different performance.
My partner loves their Civic. They will wait all day for me to get back from work so they can take the fake Mustang though. I still can’t convince them to sell the Civic, but we’re putting maybe 1000 miles on it a year now, probably a lot less, versus about 21,000 on the Mach-E
I disagree. I have had an EV since 2018 and I can honestly say I never want another one. My next vehicles going forward will be ICE 100%.
I’m also going to make sure that they are older and have little to no infotainment / internet connected systems.
A sub year 2000. Maybe a nice Accord or Jeep.
I’m over this dystopian nightmare.
It sounds like your problems aren’t with EVs. It sounds like your problems are with any modern car.
Both. But I rather fill up anytime for 2 mins than having to plan out my charging and waiting 45 mins. This is my biggest gripe.
The spyware, while a big concern, is secondary to my refueling schedule.
You’re driving a pretty old EV at this point. EV charging speeds have improved significantly. Also there are PHEVs now, why not split the difference?
I have no idea what PHEV means. Sorry.
Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle. Sometimes called “Extended Range Electric Vehicles”. TLDR: has a smallish battery you can plug in and charge that gives you something like 30 to 50 miles of range. Then a gas engine to use when the battery is low.
It’s a good option for anyone who has limited daily driving and the ability to charge overnight. Sadly they’re pretty rare. People will complain about “paying for 2 drivetrains” but cost-wise and feature-wise they make a lot of sense for people with occasional needs to drive longer distances.
If you search on cars.com it’s a filter option under “fuel type”. For my zip code there’s currently 3.9K hybrid, 2.4K electric and only 19(!) plug-in hybrid listed.
I’ve got 180 used PHEVs available on auto trader within 50 miles. Prob depends on the area
Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicle. it has a gas engine and an ev motor. the ev gets charged through regenerating breaking our through a charger. you get the best of both worlds.
Except for the maintenance of an ICE car.
You sure have strong opinions for someone who knows almost nothing about the topic
I know more about the topic than you do.
What were you driving, a 2013 Bolt?
EVs charge at 200kW now, not 40.
Sadly a first year model 3.
I have one of those and it happily does 250 kW at supported chargers. Takes me 20 minutes or so to go from 15% to 80%.
Where do you drive that 45 minute fillups mid-travel are necessary? Surely that is rare at least.
I never said anything regarding mid travel?
I charge at 20% to 80% regularly and up to 100% if I’m making a longer trip.
press Y to doubt.
Is it the drive train you have a problem with or the software? Because I think you just dislike new cars, not electric cars. In which case keep an eye out for the Slate EV
It’s the waiting 45 minutes to charge that I hate.
don’t you just charge overnight most of the time?
that’s what most poeple do
Yea, would be nice if I had my own house to add a charger to. I rent and have to use communal chargers.
Ok so you bought an electric car knowing full well you were not able to charge it at will at night (and I assume nowhere in your regular daily routine, like at work) and now complain about that?
I’m from Canada and I hate I bought a giant bikini collection but bikini season is only 1 month here… therefore, bikinis suck!
I didn’t buy it. It was gifted to me. I didn’t know anything about EV. After having used it now for 8 years, I know I never want another EV ever again.
Have you asked your work to add chargers?
Condos generally won’t let you have chargers. HOA hate everyone.
Not everyone can afford the boomer American dream of detached housing.
then why buy an electric car when OP knew full well charging was going to be troublesome?
This is a big argument against EV mandates that several U.S. states have proposed. Where the fuck do people in apartments and condos charge?
The excuses by EV supporters don’t cut it either.
There are newer models that can charge to 80% in 15 min. It will probably take a while until fast chargers are widespread, but this is where things are going.
That won’t stop battery degradation.
Yeah, it won’t.
ICE engines also need oil changes, transmission fluid, headgaskets,belts.
I agree that modern “it’ll spy on you” car software sucks ass. The actual battery and charging tech is way way better than 2018 though. No one has to stop for 45 minutes.
Yea and I can do my own maintenance. That’s another factor that sucks about EV. You can’t even do any work yourself.
Oh look, a shell representative
If Slate makes a reliable vehicle from a new model from a new company, it will be an industry first.
Nice, first I’ve heard of Slate. Privacy-focused EV and looks like they offer customizable trucks and SUVs.
Edit:
Looking at it further, it appears it’s a pick-up truck with an optional SUV conversion kit. I like the tinkerer aspect of it, but the “SUV” would have 2 doors instead of 4, which is certainly not ideal. It’s already a pain in the ass to strap a child into a car seat with 4 doors. I’d also be curious about the passenger safety of those riding in the back seat with regard to how securely the rear roof and frame are attached. I also wonder how this vehicle will get around the U.S. law coming into effect in 2027 where vehicles must have a kill switch. Overall, it seems like a $20k truck would be compelling, but the SUV concept needs more work.
seems like a $20k truck would be compelling
they won’t be $20K, or even $25K.
They should stop with that touch screen crap, always connected to the internet spyware bullshit, but they are putting that everywhere now not just EVs.
We will soon be in the siutuation where if you want an old car without that crap you can’t even go into the larger eu cities anymore, because the engine will be too polluting.
There really is a market for cars without that crap. As long as it brings me and my family to destination safely I don’t care how it is propelled.
My first vehicle ever was a 1987 Suzuki Samurai JX and I regret losing it to this day. I have not been able to match it with any subsequent vehicle I’ve owned.
If you can find a Saab from before GM bought em that’s still in good condition… *chef’s kiss* perfection.
Saab reminds me of an old 80s movie named ‘Moving’ with Richard Pryor.
Is that the one where he goes crazy and like hijacks the moving truck with his stuff in it?
Nah, it’s the one that he moves his family across the country and shenanigans occur.
He has a Saab and hires a stranger to drive it across the country for him.
We need to separate the feeling of driving from practicality. EVs are pleasant to drive for sure. Having to plan your trips around charging is annoying, there isn’t really much progress there.
The only reason I want a car is to do spontaneous trips to less populated areas. I already have range anxiety, I top up as soon as I’m below 1/3 of the tank. Batteries make it worse.I drive an EV, and planning around driving habits is simply not a thing for me. It’s hooked up to its 230v charger and will be ready at 100% charge every morning. I drive the 50km to work and back for about 25% worth of charge. There’s a few public chargers on the way to work and almost anywhere I care to go. Range anxiety is waaay overblown in my opinion.
Range anxiety is waaay overblown
in my opinionfor how you use your vehicle.People use there vehicles in a lot of different ways. That’s why there’s a bunch of different size, body style, and powertrain options available for vehicles.
Range anxiety is waaay overblown in my opinion.
By media funded by gas and oil
If you can charge at home yeah it’s fine, otherwise you’re fucked. I had an ID3 and could only charge at work or at an expensive charger at a gas station.
I had to plan charging at work otherwise I couldn’t decide on a whim to go see my mum on Sundays. The itinerary took around 60% of the battery in summer and only one charging station in between, which is not working half the time. So either I take 30-60 minutes before going to charge (hoping the charger is working and available), or I can throw the dice and hope the chargers on the way works this time.
It’s not so much range anxiety than the infrastructure around me not being enough.
Edit: and by charge at work, I mean go to the nearest charger near the office and remember to get the car back once full to avoid overtime fees. Work took 3 years to install chargers on the office parking.
Sorry, but can’t relate. Had that feeling for the first few trips until the first one where we drove so much more efficiently that we deliberately did not take the first planned stop. I rode shotgun, so I then looked for alternative spots to charge, just to see that there are so many in my country that having planned those routes in the first place literally doesn’t make sense.
Since then we just drive. Once we get below 50 km remaining range, we check some map app for the next charger. Like we did with gas stations.
Also, coming from practicality… it’s just so nice not to have to use gas stations. Like, you usually just always start whatever you do with a full battery because you just charge it overnight. No gas stops on my commute is quite practical.
It’s ok if u can’t relate, different people and places have different needs. Where I live there are areas where if you don’t fill your tank, you won’t make it to the next fuel stop. And no, the trees don’t have charging cables hanging off them. If you can do it that’s awesome, but they don’t work for people in rural cold climates quite yet! I’d love to have an “EV” hybrid thing with a smaller battery and a diesel on board generator, zero range anxiety and bonus points if the generator is an old mechanical diesel that can run veggie oil or used oil from my other shit boxes or various biofuels. Sure it won’t be as clean as a true EV but I bet it would be more efficient than a gas car.
Oh no, I have to stop for 15 minutes after four hours of driving, every time I drive more than four hours at a time.
I have anxiety right now just thinking about the next time I have to spend that 15 minutes in a couple months from now.
Do you think I can save up all the times I don’t stop for gas between now and then and use that as some sort of credit towards that time?
You wish it was 15 min
I can’t share that feeling. My country has a law that every parking garage and parking lot must have chargers and often a fast charger is installed. I really have to go a few countries over to a place that’s not full of chargers.
What is your view on hybrids?
Hybrids should be the default for gasoline vehicles. There may be some specialized cases where hybrids don’t make sense, but if you look at vehicles that have hybrid and non-hybrid options the hybrid typically sees a fuel consumption reduction of 20-30%. The cost increase is not so much and quickly pays for itself.
It’s also an easy way to add AWD if you only need a light-duty AWD system.
I drive a hybrid, it’s identical to the previous car except it uses 60% less fuel. $2000-3000+ a year savings.
Americans need to pay more attention to what is going on in Iran. Trump is draining US reserves to keep prices low, and there has never been a supply crisis this bad in history. We are months away from gas line ups and flag systems, like the 70s fuel crisis, except this crisis is far worse. The shit hits the fan after the mid-terms, by design.
Pay for two mobility solutions when you only need one… and, as a negative bonus, you’re still reliant on paying for oil and gas.
Hybrids are consistently among the most reliable vehicles you can buy.
They add some components, but they also take away some troublesome parts: https://www.torquenews.com/1083/its-whats-missing-matters-why-toyota-hybrids-are-so-much-more-reliable-other-brands-vehicles
you’re still reliant on paying for oil and gas
You’re reducing your consumption by roughly 20-30%. Given that this reduction comes at a low cost and retains the ubiquitous fast refueling of gas cars, it’s an excellent choice for many people.
Yeah I feel like hybrids are a terrible solution from an ownership perspective. You still have to get gas and do maintenance on a gas engine and all that comes with it. All so you can maybe road trip with a little less range anxiety once a year?
I like the idea of a plug in hybrid.
But there’s a lot more to a car for me. I need it to be affordable. I need replacement parts to also be affordable, and I need it to be user serviceable.
This is why my 20 year old Honda, and my wife’s 13 year old Lexus are both ideal.
Mine is a Honda, which means parts are everywhere, even in the deep deep south. It’s easy to repair basically any issue with it. I have no car note, and liability insurance is $32 a month for it.
Hers is a Lexus, which is for all intents, a Toyota. Which also means parts are ubiquitous. I swapped a water pump in it over a weekend. And I had never done that before. Sure, I’ve always done basic maintenance, but until about 3 years ago, I didn’t trust myself to do anything more in depth.
When my previous car (also a Honda) had a head gasket failure, I swapped it. Took me several months because I was learning as I went. But I did it.
Why? I had no choice. Couldn’t afford another car, and couldn’t afford the 2 to 4 hour labor rates a $20 gasket needed. What would’ve cost 500 to 600 bucks if I’d had someone else do it, wound up costing me less than $150. Had the head machined at a local machine shop, and that less than 150 bucks included that cost.
As I’ve heard my entire life, “po folks gots po ways”
The two examples of repair you used can’t happen on an EV. Of course any EV can be maintained DIY.
Not OP, but conventional hybrids are alright. Plug-In hybrids are kind of a waste, and really only see benefits in very niche situations.
. Plug-In hybrids are kind of a waste, and really only see benefits in very niche situations.
The situation where you commute 25 miles or less, where national average is 16 miles.
Just get an EV then. Why lug around a gas motor that you don’t need?
For those times where you do need to go 1000mi without wasting time at a charge station for hours
In contrast to an extra 250 miles worth of batteries that you don’t need?
I get the sentiment, and I’ve said it before but when my current daily goes, an EV of some sort will likely take its place. Even given the poor charging infrastructure where I am, mathematically it is clearly the sensible choice.
But for the things I can’t measure with a calculator, I’ll have at least one ICE vehicle for a long as it’s feasible to do so. There are boxes that EVs - and I’ve spent plenty of time with them - simply don’t tick for me.
I liked 1 of the electric bikes I tried, and Ill admit its probably objectively better in terms of practicality, but I kinda prefer gas.
For what exactly
seeing as it’s about bikes, probably the noise
For riding, perfectly linear torque without a clutch is kind of boring. Charging was kinda complicated due to 2 competing charging networks and poor infrastructure, Also I’m unclear on how to get one fixed, whereas anyone in this country can fix a honda.
Maintenance is another huge benefit of EVs.
Reduced maintenance, yes. But I haven’t (yet) found an independent mechanic that can work on my Bolt, so the little maintenance I need has to be done at the dealer.
I still took that deal, but it has room for improvement.
Yes, and the number of ev taxis and delivery mopeds in China tells me in the long run, it is cheaper. But I live in an ICE-centric society, if my bike is doing something funny, I can probably diagnose the problem, if not I’m probably within 100 feet of someone who can. If its not worth fixing, there’s enough of a used market I can get a used one for less than 1000 USD that will carry me hundreds of km at highway speeds. We must contend with the world as it exists now.
Fortunately they need fixing way less often
Make charging take 10 minutes and make them affordable and many people would switch over. Also start installing charging stations at gas stations so you have both options in the US.
Affordable I get. The 10m charging is one thing ICE drivers still get wrong. I have spent less time waiting to charge my car over the past year than you’ve spent pouring gas. And that’s counting times I was actively doing something else (but stopped mostly for charging).
I come home, I plug in, I go sleep. That’s 90% of my days, should I really optimize my car for the 1 roadtrip a month vs all the other days?
For some reason people have this mindset of “I must be in my car when I charge it”. I see it a lot when I go to DC fast chargers, which really only make sense on road trips. People sitting there in their car charging it up to 100%, which they do every time it needs a charge.
I’ve had conversations with people at charging stations where I explained that they should be charging at home and the reacted like it was the first time they even considered the possibility. If you only use fast chargers of course you are going ng to have a bad experience. That is a terrible way to operate an EV day to day, but it somehow became the default for a lot of people.
VW boss s likely talking to a wder audience than jst the US market.
I’m sorry I’ve read that headline a few times and it doesn’t make any sense anymore than the first time.
How are cars like Horses and what does that have to do with EVs? What’s this going on about?
The evolution of modes of transportation, and the public’s reaction to change.
