cross-posted from: https://reddthat.com/post/70827890
Few adult men are killed by adult women. Our fear is real
I agree with the message but it’s not a shitpost.
I disagree with the message but it’s a shitpost
I feel like you shouldnt share live locations unless its e2ee
Why is this here?
Don’t know whether to upvote for spreading awareness of women’s issues or downvote for encouraging gender wars discourse
It’s in a shitpost sub, it’s ragebait. I use it to block misogynists so that’s something.
lemmy shitpost never fails to amaze me with how concentrated its ragebait is
Lil’ bit of ragebait has always been part of shitposting, but usually it’s at least funny ragebait
Counterpoint: https://archive.ph/s0bTd
And she only got caught because she went to the police. Most accusations are only meant to destroy careers, so never come close to anything even remotely investigative. HR washes their hands of the man, (usually) blackballs him in the industry, and never tries to find out anything more beyond the woman’s accusation.
Cherry on top:
As for the good Samaritan, he says the incident has deterred him from helping a young woman ever again.
Men are seeing incidents like this, and learning by example before painful experience hammers it home.
The article is 7 years old. That’s how far you have to go back to find an example
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No, not fair point. That is one instance of this happening. Quite literally anecdotal evidence, one of the weakest form of evidence. While horrible, it doesn’t change the fact that one sex is much more likely to be the victim of the other. Women are justified in being wary of men.
Exactly
I’m disappointed in the responses from people trying to pretend that no matter who is on the receiving end of it, the overwhelming majority of violence is perpetrated by men
My ex girlfriend tried to stab me in my sleep. But I guess I should feel lucky since it’s so statistically unlikely.
The worst part - it’s not statistically unlikely at all!
Men often are at the receiving end of physical and psychological abuse, including by women. Such cases are often dismissed by society, worsening the traumatic experience.
You’re confusing two things. On a personal level, you’re not lucky. The moment something happens, everything changes for the person it happened to. Same with rare illnesses or side effects of drugs or vaccinations.
What doesn’t change is that men go on first dates without taking precautions. I hope that helped
Ah yes, the very unbiased and fair comparison between murder and podcast incels. There are no real issues that men are facing…
I don’t understand why people can’t support women while supporting men too. I can. You can do too. It is not women vs men. It is tradition/sexism vs individual freedom/respect.
On the one hand, I agree. On the other hand, most men do not understand that to be a woman means constantly being in danger.
“But not all men are-” I know. Everyone knows. There’s good people of every gender, that’s not in question. The problem is that people keep saying “Not all men” in direct response to women expressing that they don’t feel safe. Same energy as telling a black person “All lives matter”.
There’s the men this meme is about, and there’s the men this meme is for, and the venn diagram is two separate circles. The assholes with the podcasts aren’t going to understand, because they’re the problem. They think that by being nice they’re entitled to sex, and then get vindictive when no sex. Most everyone else doesn’t understand because the thought of being such a douch doesn’t occur to them.
While it’s not an “excuse”, I think the “explanation” tends to be that speech from Nick in Zootopia: If people are going to regard you as shifty and untrustworthy, why bother being anything else.
Like I said, not a valid reason, but I do see how that toxic manosphere grows through fear.
I’m sure that’s a significant part of it too
The problem is that people keep saying “Not all men” in direct response to women expressing that they don’t feel safe. Same energy as telling a black person “All lives matter”.
I don’t think this is entirely accurate. The equivalent of an “all lives matter” person is a “men have issues too” person, not a “not all men” person. The first two are from people taking issue with advocacy for one group (black people; women) because they see it as exclusionary of or harmful to their group (white people; men)*. In contrast, “not all men” people are responding to a percieved attack directed at them, not just to being excluded from targeted advocacy. Subtly but meaningfully different, imo.
* Technically non-black people and non-women, I suppose? But this is the general pattern I’ve recognized.
My analogy isn’t perfect, but I think it holds up well enough to make my point.
Woman: “I’d like to not be sexually harassed when I go out in public.”
Man: “I feel personally attacked by this statement.”
Black person: “I’d like to not be killed by a cop today.”
White person: “I feel personally attacked by this statement.”
It’s good enough to make the point, but inaccuracies add up, so I always try to correct the ones I percieve, however small.
that’s fair
I hate these kinds of posts too. All they do is promote division in these times we have to stick together against the billionaires
The worst part… it works. E.g. on me, and i know. It is difficult to see these kind of posts, which are clearly misandry, and then hear people deny the trend for misandry, especially online.
OBVIOUSLY there is a shit tonne of misogyny, especially online and that is a big problem. But we shouldn’t ignore the trend to misandry. It is not a competition and we fight against misogyny better if we fight sexism in general, I believe.
But the posts make me feel like a shocking amount of people are not against sexism but just misogyny. How am I supposed to feel like those are not my enemy when I am opposed to sexism?
Then I spend time with the people that I love and I am good again but… it is fucking poison.
This post still isn’t at bad as a roofie.
We can start working on posts like this once we’ve solved the roofie problem.
A roofie isn’t as bad as the bombing of schoolchildren. We can start working on roofing until we’ve solved the warcrime problem.
How can we not work on both at the same time again?
Did you even read the comment you replied to?
We can only ever work on one issue at once
That’s usually not true.
But with this specific issue, the most efficient solution is to help women. Women are being mean to the man community because the man community is harming women. There’s no solution that will get women to be nicer to your community more efficiently than getting your community to be nicer to women.
I disagree, because your suggestion is treating a symptom. The cause-- the structures and incentives causing the divide in the first place-- would remain, and you will never resolve all the symptoms until the cause is resolved. Trying to resolve every symptom first would result in a neverending battle.
What counts as “solved”? What are the goalposts, and who gets to judge those?
Why is roofying bad? She won’t remember it, and that’s good enough for women when they circumcise their infant boys.
Circumcision is actually horrible. My partner is still really sad it was circumcised even after all those years.
Circumcision doesn’t just affect men. People of all genders are circumcised and suffer for it. So please don’t make light of circumcision.
Honestly you probably shouldn’t start a “Who can make the most braindead stupid argument” competition if you can’t handle losing, Grail.
I agree, they definitely lost the “Who can make the most braindead stupid argument” competition…congrats on your big win 🤣🤣🤣
I can’t believe I’m about to defend grail, but i this thread they’re objectively correct and you’re not. Worse still, you’re being a douch about it. Stop it.
I was circumcised so I’m allowed to like how the chinese can throw cats at their enemies.
Delusionposting contender 2026
While I do agree with your sentiment I think its critical we work thru the issue so the rich can’t use it against us. Somehow get to an understanding that men and women face issues, both should be supported.
There’s still too many men who can’t understand why a woman would ever choose the bear.
Except polling on most issues regarding women are positive. No one is favor of more rape, lower wages, and sexual harassment.
That being said the bear analogy pisses me off
I mean, I can’t imagine most people being in favor of those things. My idea was more about how online we see missandry and misogyny, even in this comment section. The most well-known recent example was the bear.
Just that we should try to work through our divides. Women vs men. Urban vs rural. Etc. Because they’re easy distractions.
100% agreed. I just hold lemmy in a higher regard because I see less divisiveness here vs other social media and it want to keep it that way
The world would be better if we had better empathy for each other. I don’t think the poster thinks that men’s problems don’t exist. However so many men seemed to have interpreted it that way. I think the poster is just asking for empathy. There’s no need to be defensive about it if you’re a guy. All they’re asking for is awareness of their problem. We can do better than just dismissing their concerns outright.
This is just instagtam grade ragebait. There are more productive ways we can discuss issues specific to gender and this kind of bullshit is not helping. I come to lemmy to get away from other social media gender wars horseshit.
There are more productive ways but I also feel as though there are better ways for you to reply to me …
If you feel it’s ragebait and maybe it is … then that’s fine. I just see it resonated with a female only community here.
I won’t disagree you on this … if that’s what you came for Lemmy for then this is very annoying.
The overwhelming majority of men aren’t doing that shit.
Any amount of men doing that shit is unacceptable.
Same as mothers committing infanticide, parental alienation, paternity fraud, rape and many other crimes.
Acting like an entire gender is guilty of the crimes of a few is inherently wrong and it is called collective responsibility, and it can also be played both ways, which is a complete waste of time.
It just leads to fighting, throwing blame around and it does not help bring solutions to the people actually suffering.
“but what about…”
Cool, we aren’t talking about that right now.
If people pointing out shitty things that a plurality of men do upsets you, ask yourself why. Are you a part of that plurality? If no, why are you mad?
Because when problems affecting women are discussed, most people act like it is the end of the world, like men need to risk and even lose their lives to protect them, but whenever issues that affect men are discussed, we are met with dismissals such as yours.
If people pointing out shitty things that a plurality of women do upsets you enough to try to debase those concerns, attempt to throw shade and even attempt to paint the other person as someone who roofies women, then there is no sense in having a discussion.
It is the same regurgitated arguments that people who claim “kill all men” is not hate speech, and ridiculing anyone who takes issue with said problematic statement.
people pointing out shitty things that a plurality of women
The number of women doing the things you mentioned and the number of men doing the things mentioned in this post are not the same.
It is the same regurgitated arguments that people who claim “kill all men” is not hate speech, and ridiculing anyone who takes issue with said problematic statement.
I haven’t seen any of that here, and I sure as shit don’t see how my “date rape is bad” stance is the same thing as “kill all men”
To mostly quote you:
Any amount of [wo]men doing that shit is unacceptable.
And that’s exactly my original point. Whether we’re talking about a large number of perpetrators or a small number, the people responsible for those crimes are the perpetrators, not their entire gender.
Are you a part of that plurality? If no, why are you mad?
I’m not claiming your “date rape is bad” stance is equivalent to “kill all men.” I’m pointing out that the defense you’re using is the same: Make a sweeping statement about men, then when someone objects, insinuate that their objection itself is suspicious rather than engaging with the criticism.
And the difference in prevalence doesn’t really resolve that issue. We can acknowledge that certain crimes disproportionately involve one sex while still asking whether collective blame is appropriate.
More importantly, if the goal is actually to reduce these crimes and help victims, I’d rather see the discussion focus on things that can accomplish that: effective laws, enforcement, appropriate punishment, prevention, victim support, and making sure victims of all forms of these crimes have access to those things.
That’s what I was getting at originally. I’m not defending date rape, and I don’t think anyone here is. I’m questioning why assigning blame to a gender seems to be the first avenue rather than addressing the mechanisms that allow the crime to happen in the first place.
And your response just proves my previous point, having a discussion with you is entirely pointless, you respond like you were trained to escalate things and then play the victim, Are you sure you’re not AI?
Anyway, feel free to reply, or don’t. I am not engaging with you anymore.
Edit, typo
Hey. Hey, try this.
“The overwhelming majority of white land owning men in 1860 were not slave owners, therefore we should minimize the reality of slavery as a problem the slaves had. Maybe if the slaves had smiled more at white land owners, everyone would have been happier.”
Oh. Hey, don’t quite work the same, right? Kinda like it’s a societal and cultural issue. Oh… Huh, maybe it’s worth a think first before you say things.
Edit: this is a comparison to show how not OK it is to wave away something terrible people do just because “a small group do it.” It’s made sarcastically. JFC, people, learn to read.
Only a white person would make a comparison this braindead
You really can’t tell this is sarcastic? The quotes?
That might fault. Thought you were being dead serious. My bad
And? Women still have to worry about this.
The overwhelming majority of men have failed to protect women from the bad men. Good men don’t just not abuse women. Good men actively protect women from abuse.
Men have more physical power and more political power in the patriarchy. And with great power, comes great responsibility. Spider-Man uses his power to protect women from abuse. Every man should be like Spider-Man.
Spider-man is a vigilante who constantly fucks up and makes the system worse. He is also, and I cannot stress this enough, a work of fiction. Relying on the individual wills of physically and politically powerful men, even well-intentioned ones, is how we get to authoritarianism and fascism. The answer is not in individuals, but in systems.
In reality, the closst thing we have to Spiderman IRL is the NYPD, and we’ve already seen how ACAB.
The men with the most physical and political power are the ones abusing that power. The problem is the concentration of power, not men.
What happens when the “bad” men have more physical and political power than the “good” ones do in a system that allows those individuals to exercise that power unilaterally?
This dumbass literally used a fictional character as an example of ideal man lmao
So you’re saying bad men hold all the social power in the man community, and good men are a political minority, if not a numerical minority?
I agree. And that’s why people are scared of men as a political community.
“Men” as a “political community” is entirely a fabrication. Reality does not conform to the social constructs you are trying to impose upon it. This may come as a shock to you, but most men do not actually know each other.
In the last US presidential election, 45% of women voted for Trump even after all of the misogynist shit he’s done, and 45% of men literally voted for a woman to be president (not including non-voters of course). A slight statistical trend, but certainly not enough to be able to predict who an individual woukd vote for based on gender alone.
Gender is a spectrum (or more correctly, a collection of a lot of traits, most of which are their own individual spectrums). That is not something I can selectively believe is true whenever I want to support my trans/nonbinary/gender fluid friends ans just conveniently ignore whenever it makes me feel good.
Racists absolutely love to cite statistics about violent crime in predominantly black communities. Do we say “good black people need to do a better job of holding the bad ones accountable?” Absolutely not, because that’s prejudiced ans ridiculous.
If one trans woman sexually assaults a cis woman in a public restroom and JK Rowling starts howling about it… What do we do? Do we demonize all trans women, or even all trans people entirely? Do we start doing genital checks in toilets? Do we start to become afraid of trans people as a “political community”? What if it were more than one case? How many cases does it take for it to become a problem? The answer is: the question itself is fundamentally transphobic and invalid.
I think most progressives get it: its unreasonable to generalize individuals by their identies and pre-judge based on things they cannot control. However, there always seem to be some people who have a problem with that and want to hate others as a sort of “revenge”. Right now it’s in fashion to hate on men. In the past it’s been white people, which I find particularly funny because “whiteness” itself is an incredibly recent concept and many “white” people in the US today would not have even been considered “white” 100 years ago. I’ve heard the occasional hate against straight and cis people.
Age is another one I see. People love to hate on Boomers, but most of the evil people destroying the world aren’t Boomers. Trump, Biden, Obama, both Clintons, Bernie, McConnell, Peloso, Graham… All Silent Generation. JD Vance is a millennial. Elon Musk is Gen X (though it’s even less relevant outside the US). Plenty of boomers are cool as fuck and have spent their lives fighting oppression to make the world a better place, while plenty of people from every “generation” have been shitty. The simple fact is that such generalizations are meaningless.
If there’s an LGBTQ+ community, there’s a man community.
It depends, would you consider Sam Altman part of the LGBTQ+ community?
Not the mainstream one. He doesn’t hold any clout amongst most of us as a gay man. We don’t listen to him; he’s no gayfluencer. But Andrew Tate holds clout as a manfluencer.
So are we supposed to like psychically detect instances of roofieing and Instant Transmission into the middle of shady bars to punch out evil men or what?
I recommend being an amplifier. Talk to the women in your life about what they need, and use your big loud socially privileged man voice to repeat it for them. You can be a political campaigner for women’s rights by amplifying women’s voices.
Thanks for the advice
Good men actively protect women from abuse.
Do you have suggestions for how we can go about doing this? If I see a man being an asshole I’ll say something but it’s pretty rare that any of the abusive shit women in my life have gone through has happened when anyone else was there to do anything about it. Usually their abusers wait til they’re alone. I’m not trying to argue with you, I’m legitimately looking for ideas.
Call out the men in your life who act shitty.
You could offer to go out with your woman friends and family members to keep them safe. Cover their drinks while they pee, etc. Protecting others starts with talking to them about what they need.
Another thing you can do is be an amplifier. Listen to their problems, and then repeat what they say to other men.
The scary thing is how many men no one would ever suspect of doing things like that do it.
I like to turn the shower on and fill the tub up and pretend I’m in a submarine that’s been hit
How do you plan your escape?
Raise the periscope while still near the surface and hope that a friendly ship spots the feather first.
is the periscope your weiner?
Yes. Don’t ask about the 90° bend before the tip, it’s a long story that I haven’t made up yet.
a tug maybe…
I like to turn up the Bluetooth speaker and pretend I’m Stan Rogers performing in a smokey bar, using my showerbeer as a microphone.
That’s a perfect metaphor for crying over „man hating feminists“.
Why are they being racist and using a black man to illustrate dangerous masculinity!!!1!
Dangerously sexy
Well, the first paragraph happens a lot and for real reasons,
The second paragraph is exceedingly rare, but not zero
But the overall sentiment is not wrong
The best this post can hope to achieve is to bait the people who perpetuate b into the open where people who are pissed off that A has to happen can make them defend their position and thusly make an incredibly small chance to make a difference.
I’ll counter this with any “real housewives” tv drama bullshit.
Proves that women are all etcetc
Reminds me of an IDLES lyric: “Men are scared women will laugh in their face, women are scared it’s their lives men will take.”
they yourjokebutworsed margaret atwood
Men are scared women will laugh in their face
Counterpoint: https://archive.ph/s0bTd
An innocen man lost his career, his wife and children, and his home. That’s a little more than “a laugh to the face”.
And she only got caught because she went to the police. The vast majority of accusations are designed to never come even remotely close to anything properly investigative. They’re meant to impart the maximum amount of social and economic destruction with a minimum of accountability - and preferably none at all.
Cherry on top:
As for the good Samaritan, he says the incident has deterred him from helping a young woman ever again.
And a large number of men are learning from the misfortunes of other men, rather than experiencing such pain and destruction personally. This is why “chivalry” is dead. And good riddance.
No, the vast majority of accusations are not designed, they’re just the truth. Sounds like this dude was already sexist though, why would this only keep him from helping women of a vague-yet-predetermined age? Anyone could make such a claim and ruin someone’s life. If he said he refused to help people of the same skin color as her, would that justify being racist? This woman clearly has a diagnosable mental disorder, it doesn’t exactly point to a gender-wide conspiracy, and it certainly doesn’t belie the claim that women have more to fear from men than men do from women. Chivalry should die, it’s just window dressing for systemic gender inequality.
I would like to note the man in your example is still alive, which is not a courtesy always extended to women
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