Based on the description on their site, the controller includes a built-in battery: "8.39 Wh Li-ion battery, 35+ hours of gameplay… "
That was disappointing for me. Specially condidering the Steam Frame’s controllers make use of AA batteries: “One replaceable AA battery per controller, 40hr battery life”
AA Batteries might not be as convenient to use, but being able to replace them is a great advantage. All my Xbox360 controllers still work fine, but none of my PS3’ Dualshock 3s.
The official docking station could be used to recharge (rechargables) AA batteries so the functionality could remain the same.
Disagree. I bought the rechargeable replacement for all my xbox controllers. When those wore out, after years, I just replaced them with another rechargeable. Too Easy. I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
The overwhelming shortsightedness of thinking highly polluting AA or AAA batteries are a better choice over a LiON solution pack because one needs to unscrew a couple of screws to replace it is completely unreasonable. AA or AAA are a stupid ask for a controller, it’s unnecessary waste.
The overwhelming ignorance of rechargeable NiMH AA batteries is completely unreasonable. It’s so nice when my Xbox One controllers die to just simply swap batteries, and throw the existing batteries on the charger. That said, you’re not alone with that ignorance, those massive packs of single use AAs at Costco must sell to someone.
Heck, the Xbox One and newer controllers have replaceable battery packs that charge using the controller’s USB port. You don’t even have to swap them. All the advantages of a built-in battery, but when they crap out, it’s like $15 and 30 seconds of work to replace them.
Classy, tfw when people who don’t understand energy density and recharge cycle count, pitch in. Moar stuff, moar polution. Don’t know how to lower the bar further on the point.
edit: love the US defaultism, I guess I shouldn’t expect much…
We’re talking about a controller here, not a smartphone. Rechargeable AAs are more than capable enough for these kind of devices. Not everything needs to have the energy density that Li-ion batteries provide.
Also, if they made it so you could swap lithium packs that would be a better option than AA batteries.
Agree wholeheartedly.
Huh? Rechargeable AA and AAA batteries and chargers are highly affordable and work great. I only have a few items where I don’t use them like smoke alarms. For everything else I use rechargable and absolutely love having devices with easily swappable batteries.
Yeah but most people don’t buy them. If you release a product that uses aa batteries most people are going to buy disposable ones and most of them will not dispose of them properly and just throw them in the trash. Some people using rechargeable AA batteries is nice but it’s better to just remove the option for disposable batteries and make it with a builtin rechargeable battery.
This is a strange argument to me. I just don’t get it.
So. You have the controller, advertised 35+h life on a single charge.
Unless you’re some sort of gaming machine, even a no-lifer sleeps.
We’ll do a crazy minimum, you sleep 4h a day. that’s 20h for gaming. You plug it in when you sleep, a time when no one will be using it and it can be “tethered”.
if it’s a straight line (it’s probably not) 20h/35h gets you down to 42% battery.
Even 2-3 years later, battery should be between 70-80% capacity. If the minimum after a full day of usage, from charged, is 42% from the 35h estimate, in your worn 70% capacity battery you’ve still got more than 15% spare between days, after accounting for years of degradation.
And then, after using it for 3 years, you might have to contemplate using the hated screwdriver and replacing the battery. And this is only if you’ve been no-life wrecking this controller for that long. It’ll be much better from “regular” gaming usage.
I think this just comes down to undisciplined people, who can’t manage to plug their stuff in routinely. I really can’t see any other logical reason to feel this way.
And even then, for the people who can’t do charging regularly, and don’t want to worry about being tethered to a charger/their machines, a $10 power bank from a gas station fixes this issue. I charge my controller from a phone charger, already next to me, whenever it needs it. No one says that you have to explicitly plug it in to whatever you’re playing on.
Personally, I think even giving the option of using disposable batteries is irresponsible on the designer’s end. Everyone talks about rechargeables, but there’s still going to be a percentage of people who just use disposables.
This does make more sense for the frame controllers, as when they die, there’s no good/safe way you can still use them, and have them plugged in. even with a power bank the cables are, at best, ungainly, and at worst, an active safety hazard, as you swing them around you while not being able to see them. I’ve tried using index controllers wired to a power bank I was carrying, and it wasn’t good.
No one says that you have to explicitly plug it in to whatever you’re playing on.
You do if you want it to connect to the thing you’re playing on.
Unless you’re ok with a shitty Bluetooth connection. But I’m guessing few people comparatively are using that, at least as their primary use case.
You can’t tell me playing with a Bluetooth controller doesn’t actually hurt you. The constant latency is excruciating.
Then again, I use it for mostly real time- based games.
If you’re playing something like Balatro it probably doesn’t matter. But for almost everything else it sure does.
I have to say, this situation has improved enough that I’ve had no problem using BT controller connection.
We’re talking about games like Elden Ring, Enter the Gungeon, MGS:Snake Eater Delta… and reaction time definitely matters for those games. One controller even came with a 1000hz dongle, and it seems the new controller will probably have an option like that if the GabeGear has the hardware built into it: “Steam Controller’s wireless adapter is built right into Steam Machine for direct pairing.”
Meh. As long as the lithium battery is as easy to replace as it was to perform other Steam Controller repairs, it shouldn’t be a big deal.
Think about how many AA batteries will end up in a landfill over the lifetime of the controller VS the typical lifetime of the lithium battery. The AA batteries loose every time.
Think of it like this: You can replace the battery once every two years (if the controller lasts that long in your sweaty ass hands 🤣) or you can replace the batteries every month… 24 times, adding 48-96 batteries to the landfill in that time.
Why wouldn’t you get a pack of rechargeable AAs and a charger? $30-40 investment and you never need to buy batteries again, you don’t generate waste, and can go from 0-100% power in seconds.
OP might but a majority of people won’t, thus contributing to the landfill issue compared to if the controller just came with a rechargeable battery.
Well the rechargeable AAs will wear out just like an internal battery, but there’s more of them and they’re individually packaged. It’s a bit more waste and a bit more money, even if it’s not a big difference.
Personally I think the big difference is in usability - I’d rather just leave the controller on a charger when not in use and never have to worry about swapping cells in and out. (I think battery degradation is overblown - it should last way more than 2 years, especially if you aren’t gaming for 20 hours straight)
0-100% instantly isn‘t really needed with the canvenient charging dock. AA accus suck most of the time anyways. Now if it used an 18650 or better a 21700, that would have been cool. But these are heavy and a replacable inbuilt battery is better for space management
I have an 8bitdo that sits in a cradle and turns on automatically when you pick it up. Never having to worry about batteries is so nice I would never have it any other way.
I have an 8bitdo Pro2 that charges over USB-C and when the battery pack died of heavy use, you could just swap it out with rechargeable AAs and keep going. I’ve gotten over a year of additional use out of that controller now thanks to the support for AA’s.
I’m specifically not buying the Pro 3 because the battery isn’t replaceable.
Hard disagree, AA batteries are passe.
Steam did the right move here.
Vastly prefer my DualSense with built-in rechargeable that lasts multiple days unplugged over my Xbox Series pad that eats AAs. Just make the replacement simple and affordable, which it appears they will.
Vastly prefer my DualSense with built-in rechargeable that lasts multiple days unplugged over my Xbox Series pad that eats AAs. Just make the replacement simple and affordable, which it appears they will.
Meanwhile I’m over here bitching about how my DualSense dies after like 8 hours of gameplay while my Xbox Elite Series 2 lasts like 40.
(But both of those are built-in rechargeables.)
I honestly really like them. Get a charger and some good batteries and you can go from 0 to 100% charge in a few seconds and the batteries will cost basically nothing in the long run.
Nasty waste though
Disposable sure, but it sounds like they’re describing using rechargeable ones?
They might be, but people using those are pretty uncommon I think. By designing it with a rechargeable battery they’re preventing the use of millions of single use batteries
if you wanted to cut down on disposable battery waste it would make much more sense to me to make them more expensive than rechargeable batteries
There are rechargeable lithium batteries in the form of AAs that would reduce the waste, they might not last quite as long though
Yeah, I have some, but I’m definitely in the minority on that. By designing it with a rechargeable battery, they’re preventing the use of millions of single use batteries
Yeah I love having non-user-replaceable batteries in my electronics devices to give them an inbuilt death timer.
Very zeitgeist.
Hard pass on AA, but having a 21700 would be great: Epic battery life but it’s still standardized and swappable. I’d even take 18650s.
A single 18650 would have more capacity than the existing battery. That’d be dope. It is interesting how AAs and AAAs have a super common rechargeable standard, but the average person is not familiar with the lithium rechargeable standard.
I guess it’s not a huge issue for controllers if you use them regularly, but the energy density on lithium-ion batteries is great, but the self-discharge isn’t ideal. AA rechargeables are usually NiMH, and those do better on that front.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discharge
Lithium-ion: 2–3% per month;[3] ca. 4% p.m.[5]
Low self-discharge NiMH: As low as 0.25% per monthI have lithium-ion 18650s in my high-power flashlight, but for devices that I leave around the house that don’t really need a lot of energy density — think TV remotes or something — I think that it’s probably sensible to use NiMH batteries.
This is where this all needs to go, swappable standard batteries like the 18650s being used and recharged in the device and replaced when the inevitable happens and they stop storing much charge. Batteries are consumable currently and devices without swappable ones are designed to fail within a few years.
My favorite controller is actually just a cheap 8bitDo 2c hall effect wired controller. Paid $20 but it works reliably and has a third shoulder button.
Wired connection is great for desktop, but the Steam controller is being advertised for use with the GabeCube, and nobody wants a 10 meter cable across the living room where the dog trips on it and yoinks your new $700 console from its desk
All my Xbox360 controllers still work fine, but none of my PS3’ Dualshock 3s.
An important thing to note is that the Steam Controller will be user-serviceable and they want to continue their partnership with ifixit
This is a very good point. If it’s as easy to replace as AA and it lasts longer, it’s just better all around.
A few problems: it will still use rare earth metals, and those are a hot political topic right now with China restricting them
The fact that AAs are eternal. Who knows if this specific battery will still be available in 10 years.
Also, the small problem of you can’t just buy a new one at Walmart. It is small, but out of sight, out of mind, and out of the public consciousness.
Problems with Li-ion itself, I suppose. What we really need is a standardized small rectangle form factor since Li-ion is just more efficient in that shape.
Why is that important
Because it means you can probably swap your battery with a single screw or two.
I’m not doing that on a regular basis. I can swap the battery in my Xbox controller without any screws.
E: Wow, I really love being downvoted for my opinion. Super cool shit, guys.
Not downvoting you, but you’re not being reasonable. Serviceable means actually serviceable. It might be “better” to use AA batteries but if they can’t, the next best thing would be that it can be serviced by the actual end consumer. And yeah if you’re planning on fixing your own things you may need to own a screwdriver.
I don’t think you understand. I’m not talking about service. No one is talking about normal use. We’re talking about swappable batteries. Remember like we had in phones back in the day? I swap the batteries on my current controller every few days. It’s not unreasonable to expect modern controllers to have the same functionality they had 20 years ago…
Except that you don’t have to swap the batteries on a built-in rechargeable battery every few days. You plug it in when you aren’t using it, and swap the batteries every few years when they stop holding a charge. I guarantee you the time spent swapping AAs every few days will far outweigh the time you spend using a screw driver to replace this battery at the frequency it requires.
You plug it in when you aren’t using it
And what happens when the controller dies? That requires:
- Having a cable nearby
- Being tethered to said cable for an hour.
I don’t have a charging station in my couch.
I guarantee you the time spent swapping AAs every few days will far outweigh the time you spend using a screw driver to replace this battery at the frequency it requires.
I guarantee you it doesn’t. Not to mention those screws would become stripped in a matter of weeks.
You plug it in when you aren’t using it
I would leave a device on charge permanently. That would use excess electricity.
I, for one, still don’t understand why you want to swap batteries. I’m assuming you’re talking about rechargable AA batteries, and not the environmental disaster that are single use batteries. How’s taking the batteries out, going to the charging station, swapping the batteries, returning and installing them back into the controller less convenient that just dropping the controller onto the recharging puck when it’s not in use?
So you have some special conditions where you can’t recharge the controller between sessions?
I, for one, still don’t understand why to you want to swap batteries
Because I don’t want to be tethered to a cable.
How’s taking the batteries out, going to the charging station, swapping the batteries, returning and installing them back into the controller less convenient that just dropping the controller onto the recharging puck when it’s not in use?
Because then I have to be constantly concerned about the state of the battery at any time. I have enough rechargeable devices to be worried about.
So you’d rather swap batteries than put the controller on a charger - which they showed to be crazy easy to do? You’re still not making much sense.
LOL I don’t know how to be more clear about this. Yes, I would absolutely rather spend 10 seconds popping the battery door off and swapping out the batteries than spend an hour tethered to a cable, and MUCH rather than spending 10 minutes walking around to find a screwdriver to do it…
You’re not making much sense. Why wouldn’t I want that?
Lazy fuck.
I mean, there are two reasons that you want to swap batteries.
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So that the device doesn’t die. This is what OP is worried about. This probably takes years and years of use, though (unless you leave the thing discharged for a long time).
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So that you can use the controller wirelessly (say, in a living room, so people don’t trip over a cord) and also charge its batteries. For most people, I’d think that this isn’t a huge problem — I mean, my controllers with lithium batteries last way longer than I would stay awake on a full charge, and next time I use them, they’re charged. I normally run my controllers wired for better latency and not having to care about charge, but there are people who do have a legit need for wireless. However, I can think of some exotic cases where it would be necessary. Think of, say, a rec room on a ship or something with shifts of people who are constantly using the thing, where there’s no time to recharge (though then, I think you could just get a second controller or something, swap out the one charging for the one in use). The XBox controller did the AA battery thing, and I have a Logitech F710 that does this. Makes a controller heavier than lithium batteries do, though, produces a shorter battery life relative to the weight, and places some constraints on the layout of the controller (since you need to have the volume to stick the batteries in.
For #1, yeah, the idea of taking off a screw after 10 years or something being prohibitive is pretty absurd.
But if someone is just wanting to do the “simultaneous charge and use” thing, #2, then the screw is an issue, because you’d need to do that every, say, two days or so.
#2 is not an issue with a controller advertised to have 35h of battery life. Which you should charge when not in use. Unless the commenter I replied to games for 35h+ continuous hours, in which case none of what they said applies to any member of functioning society.
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Wow, that was super unnecessary…
It’s based on the bullshit you’ve been spewing about AA. And that last statement is just the cherry on top.
You’re not in this for longevity of device usage, you’re in this for convenience. Gtfo.
You’re not in this for longevity of device usage, you’re in this for convenience
Expecting my devices to be convenient? Oh, the horror…
I’d rather have screws than those clip-in covers that break or having to pry the device open like some brands of devices, ie most of the tech industry. Somewhere in the middle. Quickly being able to replace a battery easily a plus don’t get me wrong, but I don’t want it getting torn up in the process one either extreme. I am ok with it may take several minutes, but not with “can I buff this out” or “where is the tape/glue”.
I’d rather have screws than those clip-in covers that break
How about clip in covers that don’t break? I’ve been using my XBone controller for like 7 years, swapping batteries out every week or so, and it still works fine. Running in and out screws definitely will not be nearly as durable, especially if they’re anything like the Steam Deck’s screws.
Why not all 3 options, sell a controller with a removable, rechargable battery pack & able to play with a cable in while charging, and if you remove it it leaves room for batteries instead.
It is a weird flip. My current steam controllers take AA batteries, but my current VR controllers are rechargeable lithium.
Non-rechargeable batteries is a terrible idea from an ecological point of view. Also, Steam have made considerable effort to make the Steam Deck repairable. I hope they do this with all their new hardware, so replacing the battery won’t be a big hassle.
You can buy rechargeable AA and AAA batteries
Outside of specialized uses like wanting a very long shelf life for rarely-used devices, I kind of thought that everyone had switched to rechargeable AA and AAA batteries years back.
I get people even here who just swear up and down it’s impooooooosible for them to switch for a littany of excuses. It costs too much (it doesn’t, it’s actually way cheaper), why would I put them in a remote? (Literally why wouldn’t you) They aren’t as convenient (compared to buying them at a store?). Or my favorite “they don’t work as well” ,which they don’t in maybe 5% of cases. So they could still replace 95% of their alkaline but let’s be real they just don’t want to even try.
They’re still there, and usually it’s pure laziness, or just arrogance that they don’t care about the immense waste.
I mean, there are some legitimate reasons.
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Non-rechargeable alkalines do have very low self-discharge rate, so they work well if you’re gonna stash a flashlight somewhere for a long time for emergencies.
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The voltage on different types of batteries is not the same, and there are some devices with power supplies that cannot handle a wide-enough voltage range. I have a Grundig G6 shortwave radio, for example, which will not run on NiMH AA batteries (1.2V, rather than 1.5V alkalines or lithium). I suppose that I could get rechargeable lithium-ions, but I don’t really want to deal with rechargeables with different battery chemistry floating around, and my current battery charger can’t handle lithiums.
I just remember the 1980s, where the norm was alkaline, and people had to buy the things all the time for all kinds of battery-powered devices. Was nice to be able to just recharge batteries at home.
Kids toys are another use case for non rechargeable. I’m not going to buy a 100 pack of rechargeable batteries.
Jesus, this has to be one of the dumbest comments I’ve seen on this site
If you think parents are putting rechargeable batteries in all their kids toys then you are the dumb one.
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Yeah but so many people wouldn’t.
Rechargeable AA batteries are a thing. From an ecological point of view, the custom battery is a bigger problem. In 20 years the controller will still work and AA batteries will still be available, but no one will be making new built-in rechargeable battery replacements (even if Valve originally intended for the battery to be replaceable).
One of my favourite controllers has been the Dual shock controller. I’ve got 2 PS3 controllers that I love using. Their rechargeable batteries are shot to shit. I would be much happier if I could use AA.
If the device has a 40 hour battery life and the battery lasts 1000 cycles, that will give you 40.000 hours. That means you can play for five hours every day for over 16 years. I don’t think many devices will last longer than that.
Non-rechargeable batteries is a terrible idea from an ecological point of view.
Most people won’t replace an internal battery. If the battery dies, they buy a new controller.
I’m not sure whether this is actually better for the environment than even if they were using non-rechargeables.
All my Xbox360 controllers still work fine, but none of my PS3’ Dualshock 3s.
The Steam Controller battery is user replaceable. It’s not AA “pop it out and throw a new one in from the charger” like a Logitech F710, but you can open the back cover and replace the battery.
Valve have not provided any details around sourcing the batteries. All they’ve said is that the controller is able to be serviced by opening via the screws and clips - ie it’s not glued closed like many user-hostile companies, eg Google Stadia.
The PS3 Dualschock 3 controllers are also exactly as user-serviceable - clips and screws, no glue. So I agree with OP. Batteries that are built for user replacement to a standard format are far superior.
They’ve provided batteries for the Steam Deck, and the specifications of the battery will be public and available for outside manufacturers. I presume they’ll provide batteries through iFixit after release as well.
Yeah. AA batteries suck though! I’d be happy if they used 14500 cells or something. but the form factor was probably the issue, the controller is a chonk in the middle already with the flat battery pack
People forget we had hot-swappable li-ion batteries decades ago in phones and DSLRs. They absolutely could’ve done that with no to minimal form-factor changes.
Hot-swappable battery meaning without turning off the device?! Lol I’ve never seen that 😉 I get what you’re saying though, but from what I’ve seen the battery is replaceable! It’s retained with a screw but that’s not a deal breaker imo. Using a standardized form factor would have been even cooler, but I think that would’ve been very difficult for space reasons
Some laptops used to have that. They would have two batteries, one internal one and one hot-swappable external one.
Ahem, my x250 Thinkpad is still chugging along with its two batteries .
Yeah, if memory serves, the last ThinkPad to do it was the T480, which was in 2018. Maybe there’s some P-series that did it afterwards too. Hello from an X2100!
Nowadays you can get AA-shaped lithium cells. Anyways I hope free battery is easy to replace after 2 years.
According to reports it is. Not as easy as a hot-swapable one, but close. You just have to remove the back panel, pop it out and put the new one. No adhesive involved.
Week one, somebody’s going to release a CAD file for a 3D-printable shell with a removable battery cover.
If JSAUX or ExtremeRate did not already made one. Hell, DBrand already announced a companion cube skin for the Steam Machine. 😂
Amazing. This should become industry standard.
18650 is awesome, a good balance of weight to capacity. They are the standard cells used in laptops, vapes, small powerbanks, power tool batteries, and so on. They can also go into a fairly standard charger for AA and AAA batteries and give a lovely nominal 3.7V.
That said, pouches are better for inside a device like a controller. The weight of a battery is significantly influenced by the casing. A pouch is almost entirely capacity, a cell like an 18650 or AA is largely the metal of the casing. If you have the pouch inside the plastic of the device you can save that weight.
I think laptop batteries are usually thinner than 18650s? All the ones I’ve seen are, anyway
Perhaps more modern ones, but the ones in my last and current laptops are both 18650s. 6 cells, 9 cells, you stack in series to increase voltage, parallel to get more capacity, so a 3s2p would have ~14V which is more than the required 12V for internal components, no boost converters needed. That said, now they do a lot of pouch batteries which are actually multiple internal pouches run in series to get the same sort of voltage but made with the chassis fitting them perfectly, no wasted space.
Yeah I’ve only seen the pouch type.
I think you might be onto something. Probably the reason why they went for a built-in battery is space limitations
Did anyone see the MASSIVE rumble/haptic motors in the grip area? Yeah. This is the answer. They packed a lot of stuff in there.
I own an 8BitDo SN30 Pro+ controller that has a neat feature: It comes with a rechargeable battery back that is user replaceable via a simple back cover, but regular AA batteries can also be used in the same slot instead.
Kinda like an Xbox controller, except that the rechargeable battery was actually included instead of being a separate purchase, and no adapter is needed for either battery types.
Kinda like an Xbox controller, except that the rechargeable battery was actually included instead of being a separate purchase, and no adapter is needed for either battery types.
I don’t recall the Xbox rechargeable battery pack requiring an adapter. It just pops in where the AAs would be.
My main concern about that is that using AA and AAA form factors promotes the use of disposable dry cell batteries, even if nickel or lithium cells are just as widely available. And, realistically, not even the closest Li-ion form factor is fully compatible with AA, and Ni-MH sucks balls.
The controller is also filled to the gills with hardware. Doesn’t look like there’s enough volume left for AA or AAA receptacles without giving it an underbelly to rival the Xbox Duke.
On a slight side note, the Duke is the only controller I have ever liked, they just don’t make controllers for giant hands at all anymore. Lol
