Motorola is making a graphene OS phone soon.
How is it even legal for a company to decide what you can or can’t install in your own device?
The US supports monopolies as long as they have a backdoor. It was the same with Microsoft in the 90s.
Ugghhhh, its THEIR OS you’re using. Perfect example is Nintendo.
I have the new Jolla Phone preordered and I’m excited to see how it plays out. Maybe 2026 is the year of the Linux Phone
Alternatives
Fairphone https://shop.fairphone.com/the-fairphone-gen-6-e-operating-system
GrapheneOS https://grapheneos.org/
Sailfish OS https://sailfishos.org/
LibrePhone from GNU/Linux https://librephone.fsf.org/
̶S̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶l̶̶o̶̶a̶̶d̶̶i̶̶n̶̶g̶ Installing
Yeah, but installing from the Play Store is also installing, and “sideloading” is shorter than “installing from outside the Play store”, so I’m not sure this is a winnable fight.
It’s installing regardless from where you get the app, by labeling it as sideloading these giant corpos want to label it as doing something outside the norm, something that is “unsafe” so they can have control over user behavior and market dominance
Yes that’s what I’m saying, it’s “installing” regardless of where you get the app, so if an article wants to talk about something concerning installing apps from outside the Play Store, they can’t just say “installing”. That would be incorrect if the things they talk about don’t concern installing from the Play Store.
So you need a different description than just “installing”.
E.g. in this example the article title couldn’t be “installing changes are next”, it would need to be something else.
“Installing” is not a drop-in replacement for “sideloading” without changing the meaning of what you say.
I’ve had the play store install, remove, and modify installed applications without so much as a hint they were doing it, the “Play Store” does what would be considered “sideloading” applications (i. e. a third party app managing your applications from a location other than the package manager), feeding an apk to a package manager would just be “installing” an application like it always has been.
By co-opting the term to be something bad, they are trying to make it seem like they are the only safe source for applications (even though the Google-managed stores have just as much malware as WinMX did 20+ years ago).
I’ve been saving all the .apk files for apps I find valuable, just in case this ends up impacting future GrapheneOS builds.
Worst case scenario, at least I’d be able to use a saved Pixel for the apps I want, without needing a Google account.
Is there a way to get the apk files for apps you’ve downloaded from the Play store?
aurora gives you the option to “save app bundle”
Interesting… I’ve only just started messing with Graphene by putting it on an old Pixel and it seems pretty impressive.
So you opt to use Aurora? Do you need to install Google Play services to use that one? Seems like the options are Aurora, or creating a second user and installing the sandboxed Play services on that for apps that need it.
I tried the latter, but it’s basically impossible to sign up for a Google account without giving a phone number these days and I’m not sure I want to log in to my actual Google account since that kind of defeats the purpose…
Some people seem to have some concerns about Aurora as well
Do you need to install Google Play services to use that one?
no. Nor do you need a boogle account.
Some people seem to have some concerns about Aurora as well
I’ve never read any concerns about aurora. What are they?
And that’s why I’m installing /e/OS in my Fairphone 6, and shifting to Linux based phones.
Even now Google is removing everything that is a choice to avoid their massive surveillance machine, apps started complaining about removal of UnifiedPush:
Fuck Google.
shifting to Linux based phones
lol good luck with that LOL
Some people value freedom more than convenience
Been using them for a hot minute, been rocking one flavor of the Linux kernel on my phone since the release of the Motorola Droid back in like 2009-2010.
I have a Jolla C2 with SailfishOS, it has Android app support based on AlienDalvik, and my banking app runs just fine there. I can use Nextcloud, etc. For my needs it runs great.
Don’t forget their ongoing war on ad blocking. I’ll miss NewPipe so much.
NewPipe, PipePipe, Grayjay, brave mobile
One of them generally works.
The latest NewPipe is working for me right now. It only ever dies for a few days.
Pipepipe works fine
I’ve been using NewPipe without problems. Is it supposed to have gone away?
Mine insists I’m a bot and requests I sign in.
Other times it works occasionally.
Like rolling dice.
Try some methods to change your IP.
You can try Futo’s Grayjay. Always updating its YT plugin when Google breaks it.
That’s actually a known bug in Fennec, nothing to do with Google
I’m on an FP6 with iodéOS, very smooth so far, and apparently security is better than with /e/OS.
I had to manually flash it though.
Do
noevil.FF6 with eOS is awesome! For the first time in a very long time, I feel like I actually own the device! Very liberating.
Do you use any banking apps?
Yeah, I was very happy that my banks app worked. Also, I found if I keep microg connected to the app lounge, then my bank app would not work. So I keep it set to anonymous connection.
All mine work, so far, in Graphene, except Google wallet and i don’t need Google to see what I purchase anyway.
Mine refuse to run in GrapheneOS. Everything runs except my banks’ apps and eBay. It’s a slight inconvenience but the tradeoff has been worth it.
Have you tried the workarounds like disabling some exploit protections for the app? It can be finicky but sometimes it’ll make it usable
Welcome friend! I’ve been having a great time with e/os on my FP6.
I recommend the lawnchair launcher if you don’t like the stock one.
Yes lawnchair is a must have with e/os. I like what /e/os is pushing for but im puzzled on why they did this horrendous launcher and the way they change stock android look.
Great. So half my software won’t work.
Google, just call it what it is. Ad blocking prevention.
This is in no way a justification for what Google is doing, but they came to a “compromise” where you can still opt-in to being allowed to “sideload unverified apps” (read: install apps that didn’t have to get approval from Google).
You have to enable it in the settings, and then you need to wait 24 hours before the setting is enabled. After that you can continue to run “unverified” apps
The “advanced flow” with a one-day wait is just Google realizing they need to boil this frog a little more slowly to prevent a backlash. They still want a fully boiled frog in the end.
Xiaomi bootloaders used to work like that. You’d have to jump through some bullshit hoops to register your phone for bootloader unlocking, and then wait a few days to finally be able to unlock it. Then they made that worse and worse, and afaik it’s so insanely difficult and inconvenient right now that it’s practically impossible to unlock your Xiaomi phone’s bootloader. This applies to all the brands under that umbrella.
I am about 97.37% sure Google will do the same over time and at some point you just won’t be able to install any APKs.
Even google’s “verified apps” are full of spyware, backdoors, and telemetry. They’re so fucking hypocritical. Like an abuser who says “You can’t make it in this world without me!”
Also, is this going to effect third-party ROMs like Lineage and its offshoots?
AFAIK, this is only Android, not AOSP that third-party devs would be using for their ROMs - and AOSP can be forked as well, so there’s no reason that Lineage can’t cut that part out if it did make it into AOSP.
Good to know!
For now at least, google will likely remove that option in the future.
it wont remain at that. i bet they will disable that setting occasionally and make you wait that 24h again and again.
What I haven’t seen is what happens to all of the apps I currently have installed when this hits.
Am I going to have to wait 24 hours to open apps I already have installed?
Will they all get auto-removed and need reinstalling?
Everything is written as if you’re starting from new not an existing state.
What happens if I just stop updating android for as long as I can? Quite a few apps on my phone have retained functionality past when their developers attempted to brick them because I froze updates
Hello from Android 12 lol. My 4yo phone runs just fine!
Sick. Any security scares or compatibility problems?
None I’m aware of. I’ve uninstalled pretty much every Google app, signed out of gmail acct and am mostly using F-Droid apps since I don’t need any “app store” apps. I kept my banking app, but apparently so far doesn’t need Google’s services bc it still works just fine. My battery, since making that switch, lasts a bit longer without all that stuff running.
But FYI, I don’t have any social media, and I only use WiFi unless I’m on the road. I don’t BT to my car but rarely, and I don’t need location services. So 1 day+life is easily achievable!
My Samsung S22 let me pause updates anymore. And it nags me to death.
My workaround is to start downloading the update and then pausing it.
RIP, that’s cancer. Yeah samsung has lost its fucking mind. I wish I had been considering the availability of 3rd party roms when I chose my model
This is all managed via Play services not the android OS so you’d need to not update the core services.
Got that one froze too 🤞 pray for me holding out in the woods on this shit like the unabomber
There is a way to not update play services? They do their shit in automatic on my phone
It’s under settings > Security Privacy. You might need dev mode turned on
It won’t do anything to apps already installed. Future apps can be installed either by going through the dev mode unlock process or connecting to a computer and using ADB which doesn’t require a wait period.
Haven’t seen anything official but I’d assume they will behave as normal and you may not be able to update them without going through the advanced flow. Since ADB installs aren’t restricted I don’t think there will be any changes to existing installs. Just my thoughts based on what they have confirmed so far. I am just waiting for GOS to support the Pixel 10a so I can get further away from Google and their BS in general.
FYI, there’s an experimental build available, if you can’t wait.
Thanks, I’m aware but this is already my daily driver because my old phone was dying so I can’t make the jump until it is stable.
For those who haven’t seen this excellent video:
It’s not that “excellent.” It’s just ‘for the evulz’ mustache-twirling comical villainy, which ends up downplaying what’s actually important to know about enshittification, which is how self-serving and abusive it is. When companies enshittify products and services, they’re not just making them worse; they’re specifically making them more exploitative.
A lot of the examples shown in the video – cutting holes in socks, sawing off a chair leg so it wobbles, drying out a marker, etc. – are not enshittification. Enshittification is stuff like putting spyware in devices so that you double-dip on the purchase price and the value of the data, or turning products (as opposed to services) into a subscription. Stuff that extracts unearned value from the customer.
It touches on it in the latter part of the video, but for the most part misses the mark.
You know, it was funny. Bit long in the tooth. The best thing about the video, it was actually produced by Norway. The government produced the video. That’s pretty freaking cool.
Yeah it was a short PSA for average people, not power users. If it wasn’t funny a lot of people lose interest. It only spends the first 25% on the unrelated comedy bit. And the real point is to get people to the site at the end to learn more.
Just bought a second hand pixel 6 to test Graphene. Let’s see what Motorola does and how Linux phones do in the future.
Ummm… Isn’t this precisely against the whole EU’s make sideloading (ie. installing) as easy as main app store installing thing?
Taking steps backwards…I doubt it. EU regulations demand all manner of documentation, including who supplied software. Tech companies should also protect users and enforce “our” laws, which means a lot of surveillance.
App stores already have to do developer verification, under the celebrated DMA.
There’s a pro-business loophole meant to keep bureaucracy low. Very small companies are exempted. It’s kind of ironic, because Lemmy usually hates this kind of pro-business anti-regulation thing. To be fair, using this loophole to shield devs, as F-Droid wants, is an abuse. It’s only meant to allow small companies to grow until they have the resources to handle the verification.
It took years and legal pressure and fines to have othet app stores decently recognized and allowed. I don’t understand how wr are goinf so back. I mean I understand. Capitalism + monopoly + orange guy.
Apple shat all over those regulations with their implementation and got away with it so now Google are doing the same
Yeah, my thoughts exactly.
Accountability is key in regulations. Without it, why should anyone follow them?
I also blame the Epic lawsuits. How the fuck did they lose to Apple but win against Google, the platform where Fortnite was still fully playable and monetised?
I don’t know anything about those. What’s the story?
Basically Epic weren’t happy with the 30% cut that Apple and Google take from app sales and in-app purchases so they introduced a direct payment method which bypassed Apple and Google’s payment methods, but was in violation of their app store rules. In response both Apple and Google removed Fortnite from the app store. Fortnite remained playable on Android because of sideloading but was unplayable on iOS (I’m not even sure if it’s back yet)
In response Epic sued both companies claiming they held an illegal monopoly. Somehow Apple won and Google lost
Oh I do recall that now that you mention it. But I wasn’t aware that they lost to Apple. That sounds ridiculous, isn’t it the same thing?!
Do we stand any chance? And how fucking dare these fucking outlets continue to normalize this shit.
We need development of Linux OSs for phones to ramp up. And we need Linux distributors and backers to fight back against “age verification” laws that are actually ID verification laws. There’s a global attack underway on multiple fronts against free software, private computing, and user ownership and control of devices.
In the meantime, for a stopgap, there’s GrapheneOS, but that doesn’t fix the problem of developers having to choose between Google’s way or unpaid obscurity.
- Android is a Linux distro
- Most people, me included, don’t want to run normal Linux on their phone. I use Linux on the desktop. I don’t hate Linux or anything of the sorts. But for phone use, normal Linux sucks major ass. What we need is GrapheneOS to be normalized and independent app stores for GrapheneOS.
- The above is not to say Linux phones are bad for everyone. I am sure there are few people who would enjoy it, but they are the minority.
PostmarketOS was already mentioned.
There’s another Linux OS for phones I’m aware of: https://sailfishos.org/PostmarketOS is a thing. A lot of the software is already available for Linux. People just keep pretending it doesn’t exist and keep spouting the same tired anti-Linux rhetoric ad nauseum.
Heck, I bet you could make a phone call from a bloody Pi Zero with a 4g & UPS HAT.
That’s a bit unfair. Postmarket is super cool and I can’t wait to get a Linux phone. But let’s not pretend it’s ready to be daily driven. Even on the best supported phones there are still hardware driver compatibility issues. And that’s not even speaking about the software catalog. Even in the privacy community, a lot of people regard banking apps as mandatory. Good luck ever getting those to run there.
No, not really. This is not a real alternative. Google will still try to kill alternative ROMs and it’s just a matter of time before GrapheneOS will no longer be maintainable. A push for true Linux mobile OS is needed. Time is running out.
They’re partnering with Motorola
Won’t help them much when Google makes Android closed sourced and hides security fixes from them.
People can donate to all of these things if they wish - I dont see why GrapheneOS can’t also be given funds even just for the work that they’re doing currently.
Sure, you can donate. I’m just saying it’s not a good solution to the problem at hand. But it’s a good solution to other problems and it will work short term.
I’m developing an app as a side project, but testing can only happen meaningfully out in the field. I found a breaking bug yesterday, asked Claude to fix and deploy over remote session. I installed the update and continued ny testing session.
I sure wouldn’t want that to go away.
lol wut?
