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Congratulations on being someone who chose to watch the world burn instead of trying to stop it in whatever small ways were possible.
Your moral superiority must feel great from the safety of your keyboard.
Congratulations on being a right wing dickwad happy to see a little genocide as long as you weren’t affected at home.
No president other than trump would’ve been stupid enought to start this fight. Proven by 2 decades of NOT AT WAR WITH IRAN. Get off your high horse, you aren’t a martyr for anyone. People die everyday and all we really can control is that which happens AT HOME.
“I want fewer genocides, not more genocides” is not “I’m fine with a little genocide.”
Kamala would have continued suport for Israel, including arming and funding them, just like Biden. But starting literal war with Iran? Bombing school girls? I kinda doubt it. Biden didn’t.
What about firing all the senior generals and burning 14 years of missiles in 1 month or turning Hurmuz into a reparations toll booth?
IMO the lefty “own the libs” mentality is indistinguishable from maga’s brain rot. Like congrats your mom smoked weed instead of taking you to church I guess.
America is cooked because the people most dialed into what’s going on all have goldfish brains apparently.
Removing seniors generals make the chance of the usa winning the war lower. Israel will always get prioritized so the same amount of interceptors would have been used. The west should finally pay the price of hurting Iranians wirh sanctions by paying fortheir ships to pass from the straight
What about…
Like congrats your mom smoked weed instead of taking you to church I guess
Bold of you to assume I’m a leftist because my mom told me to be one and not from all the bigoted shit I saw at church.
My thought exactly. Nothing dissuades people from being xtian than being around other xtians long enough.
This is correct, mostly because apparently they already knew Strait of Hormuz was an issue. War is off the table if it hurts economically.
But bombing school girls? I could see it not stopping them. They just wouldn’t be as inept to waste missiles on it; it wouldn’t stop them if there was a strategic reason. They’re not much better than Israel, if our actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria are any indication.
You’re not wrong there
Start a war, probably not
Let Israel start a war and follow in after, probably
https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/07/14/the-jerusalem-u-s-israel-strategic-partnership-joint-declaration/ (because the WH direct link memory holed’ it)
The United States stresses that integral to this pledge is the commitment never to allow Iran to acquire a nuclear weapon, and that it is prepared to use all elements of its national power to ensure that outcome. The United States further affirms the commitment to work together with other partners to confront Iran’s aggression and destabilizing activities, whether advanced directly or through proxies and terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah, Hamas, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Its the same doctrine that the Trump whitehouse is following. Biden supported the genocide of Palestine, under this doctrine. Do you think Kamala would have been to stop the 12 day war? Or would have even been interested in stopping it?
I don’t. At least not with the level of support to Israel you describe, a level of support almost certainly she would have maintained or at least increased. It would have been more polite. Probably more competent. Maybe they would have built a coalition first. Maybe they spend 6 months sane-washing it so that BlueMAGA supports it.
But this is what Israel wanted. And the Biden Whitehouse and the Harris candidacy ran on a policy of giving Israel everything they wanted.
Eh. For decades US Presidents have given full-throated support to Israel. For decades they have hugged Israel’s PM and invited them to Congress. For decades Israel has asked US Presidents to bomb Iran to dust. And for decades US Presidents said no. Until Trump.
I think a big part of “why now” is that the decades of propaganda painting Israel as the “good guys” of the region have really frayed. I believe that this was basically the last-ditch effort by Israel to meet it’s most desired strategic objectives before it loses its remaining political cover. There may have been more pushback from a less incompetent military under Harris, but I’m not at all confident that she wouldn’t have been sold on it anyway.
Did you not notice the Gaza genocide? Whose presidency did it start under?
This may come as a bit of a shock, but Gaza is not Iran.
Well no shit.
You don’t see a relationship between the two? You don’t see a pattern?
Please tell me you didn’t vote third party in November…
You Keep following me around, straw-manning me, derailing the conversation, making ad hominem attacks. Get lost
Right …so anyways. Did you vote for Jill or not?
So you’ve moved on from bullying cross-dressers to bullying… people who ask why we’re bullying cross-dressers?
Really selling me and everyone else on how totally justified you were in your bullying.
I mean if they, did, I’m sure you’ll see the point in advocating full-throatedly to their demands, since you couldn’t stop fascism without them.
That’s only a valid argument if you assume more votes would be gained from acceding to their demands than not. Otherwise you still end up with a loss, only now you’re looking at the fucking Zionist ‘moderates’ being the missing piece that we have to accede ‘full-throatedly’ to, since we can’t ‘stop fascism’ without them.
Yeah this was the hand-wringing the trope they rolled out during the elections. Considering that the majority of Zionists are republicans already, at least in the form of Cristian zionists, we (both now and should have then) can readily dismiss this. It gets the Democratic candidate bupkis.
i didn’t say anything about Gaza. We’re talking about Iran
Well no shit.
You don’t see a relationship between the two? You don’t see a pattern?
I think you accidentally posted this twice.
I mean, I did post it twice to two separate people saying the same thing.
And for decades US Presidents said no. Until
TrumpBiden.ftfy.
It’s fair to say that Israel has wanted to push out or kill all the Palestinians for decades, yet no POTUS before Biden gave them carte blanche to do so. Going on that standard there’s no telling what Biden’s actual red lines were. Especially since reducing Iran to reinforce the stranglehold of the global north’s oligarchs has long been a goal of the Pentagon too.
Biden didnt seem to care about Israel using bombs he supplied to kill plenty of school girls.
But you see, it’s different because the US is only supplying the orphan crushing machine, keeping it running, and making more. It’s okay as long as we aren’t actually throwing the orphans in ourselves!
What would Kamala do after Iran closes the strait in response to Israel’s actions?
Why would Iran close the strait in response to Israel’s actions?
Same reason they’re doing it now, to stem the flow of arms into Israel and make everyone enabling America and its attack dog choose between enabling us and having oil.
Same reason they’re doing it now, to stem the flow of arms into Israel
Jesus fucking Christ, you can’t be serious.
and make everyone enabling America and its attack dog choose between enabling us and having oil.
So why didn’t they do this the last dozen times they were attacked by Israel?
Because those were much more limited strikes. Why exactly do you think Iran closed the strait?
Because those were much more limited strikes.
They eradicated most of Iran’s air defenses, which is kind of pertinent to the situation they find themselves in now.
Why exactly do you think Iran closed the strait?
… because the US joined an all-out fucking war on Iran, and increased oil prices weaken the domestic position of the American president to maintain the war.
Maybe she wouldn’t, but Bibi would. Then what?
Then Iran and Israel trade shots a few times, like happened the past dozen fucking times Israel attacked vital Iranian infrastructure.
I don’t think we are dealing with the same Israel we were before October 7th.
And I don’t think Harris has some secret way to handle Bibi that neither Joe nor Donald have.
Bibi would have dragged her along just like he has the other two.
I don’t think we are dealing with the same Israel we were before October 7th.
I think we’re dealing with the exact same Israel we were before October 7th.
And I don’t think Harris has some secret way to handle Bibi that neither Joe nor Donald have.
No, but only Trump has been shitwitted enough to crater his own domestic approval rating and long-term US interests for Israeli asspats on his diaper.
Bibi would have dragged her along just like he has the other two.
Except Bibi’s strikes on Iran literally were not accompanied by American intervention in Iran during the October 2024 Israeli attacks on Iranian soil.
So clearly there is a difference between now and then.
Oooookay, we are totally dealing with pre-October 7th Israel. The one that knowingly attacked a US ship in 1967: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
At the time of the attack, the USS Liberty was flying the American flag and its identification was clearly indicated in large white letters and numerals on its hull. … Experience demonstrates that both the flag and the identification number of the vessel were readily visible from the air … Accordingly, there is every reason to believe that the USS Liberty was identified, or at least her nationality determined, by Israeli aircraft approximately one hour before the attack. … The subsequent attack by the torpedo boats, substantially after the vessel was or should have been identified by Israeli military forces, manifests the same reckless disregard for human life.[55][56]
The US had to cover up the attack and still supports Israel to the hilt.
“It was significant that, in contrast to his secretary of state, President Johnson fully accepted the Israeli version of the tragic incident.” He notes that Johnson himself included only one small paragraph about the Liberty in his autobiography,[57] in which he accepted the Israeli explanation, minimized the affair and distorted the number of dead and wounded, by lowering them from 34 to 10 and 171 to 100, respectively. Lenczowski further states: “It seems Johnson was more interested in avoiding a possible confrontation with the Soviet Union, … than in restraining Israel.”
Yeah. It’s horrific. And the reluctance to confront Israel only gotten worse since then. Especially since AIPAC gaining a death grip on domestic US politics in the 1980s (it had been around since the 50s, but didn’t control discourse on Israel quite so totally), and then intensifying again with the heightened Islamophobia and evangelical millenarianism of the “War on Terror” in the 2000s.
Fuck this “both sides” bullshit
Fuck this my child murdering genocide side is good bullshit.
Both the Soviets and the Canadians said that Nazi Germany was their main enemy during WW2, but that doesn’t mean the Soviets and Canadians were equivalent to each other.
If you, a campist, and a theocrat walked into a bar, and all said “Death to America”, that would not mean the three of you are suddenly in agreement of what your opposition means.
Furthermore, even being united in opposition of the same type is still not opposition of the same intensity - both you and a Republican (at least pre-2016) would probably agree that, say, North Korea’s government is tyrannical and needs to be put down. The difference is that the Republican’s opposition to the immediate existence of North Korea’s government would probably be intense enough to sanction unprovoked interstate warfare, whereas your opposition would probably not sanction interstate warfare, instead preferring internal revolution.
Put another way, a bunch of US presidents have hated Cuba for immensely petty reasons. But only a few have hated it enough to actually attempt to invade.
“No one is good here”? Yeah, fucking fair. US politics are mega-fucked, and that’s not even getting into the question of how many Americans actually agree with this shite (too many). “They are the same level of horrific”? Not a fucking chance, and no analysis of the situation bears that out that isn’t reliant on alternate history level “But you couldn’t KNOW it wouldn’t happen” about how the discovery of rubber duckies in 100 AD would have made Christianity LGBT-friendly.
you’re correct, there’s only one side. the far right.
Everyone and their grandmother knows a war with Iran would mean Iran closing down the strait of Hormuz, so no one was about to do it. So no Harris wouldn’t have done it JFC. You can say they are an adversary without declaring war JFC. Only Trump is dumb enough to do it.
JFC Kamala would have done whatever Israel did, which was start this war and drag the US into it.
JFC liberals believing they would act different.
You do realize that Israel has struck Iran numerous times before without the US entering into a full-scale war in support, right?
The usa was aware of all the assasinations and let it happen. It may not enter the war directly if it was not Trump but they would still fully back israel with intelligence and money and Iran would still retaliate on the usa assets in the middle east and close the straight of Hormuz
The usa was aware of all the assasinations and let it happen.
Yes, as Israel has done many times before, and as the USA has stood by and allowed many times before.
It may not enter the war directly
Okay, so you fucking agree with my point? What’s the issue here?
if it was not Trump but they would still fully back israel with intelligence and money and Iran would still retaliate on the usa assets in the middle east and close the straight of Hormuz
Wow, I wonder why they didn’t do that the last dozen fucking times we backed Israel with intelligence and money.
Okay, so you fucking agree with my point? What’s the issue here?
The issue is that ton of Iranians would still get killed if the USA was not directly involved but majority of Americans are simply selfish and may only act when ton of Americans get killed in a war
Wow, I wonder why they didn’t do that the last dozen fucking times we backed Israel with intelligence and money.
The preparations for the twelve day war started during Biden and ended during Trump . The reason why this time they went to full scale war is because Israel felt powerful after genociding Gaza with no real consequences from the west and even China and thought they destroyed Hezbollah so they thought they could destroy Iran completely to finally start the greater israel project
The issue is that ton of Iranians would still get killed if the USA was not directly involved
Okay, do you think that less Iranians would be killed if the USA was not involved? Would that be something one might consider a significant difference, or are dead Iranians like a boolean - it only matters if there are dead Iranians or there are not; the actual number of lives fucking murdered doesn’t matter?
but majority of Americans are simply selfish and may only act when ton of Americans get killed in a war
And act in what way? In what positive way for Iran do you see Americans acting in response to Americans being killed in the war? Direct American involvement in the war stopping? Direct American involvement that would almost certainly not have happened under the other administration?
The preparations for the twelve day war started during Biden and ended during Trump .
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And the October 2024 strikes, and all the ones before that?
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That also doesn’t explain why Iran didn’t close the strait then if your point is valid.
The reason why this time they went to full scale war is because Israel felt powerful after genociding Gaza with no real consequences from the west and even China
You mean like they felt in 2024? Or in 2025?
and thought they destroyed Hezbollah so they thought they could destroy Iran completely to finally start the greater israel project
… that doesn’t explain why Iran would close the strait in response to attacks by Israel alone when it did not do so previously, which is what was asked.
What power projection do you think Israel has in this war? Without the US directly involved, what level of ‘full scale war’ do you think Israel would be able to wage in 2026, even with a theoretically unlimited amount of monetary and materiel aid from the USA?
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I don’t like politicians that support billionaires or holy wars either, but isn’t this ideology partially responsible for the situation we’re in now?
I understand that voting for someone who is not just the lesser of two evils but also directly opposed to our fundamental values might perpetuate a broken system… but couldn’t there be a way to change the political zeitgeist without killing our own citizens in the streets and threatening to glass a country of millions?
I want the systems of oppression to fall as much as the next guy, but allowing the Trump administration to concentrate power as fast as possible doesn’t seem like a fair trade to get there.
The lesser evil keeps leading to the greater evil. It’s no more delusional to demand better, than it is to think that reaffirming the status quo will lead you anywhere but evil.
but isn’t this ideology partially responsible for the situation we’re in now?
Welcome to the intent of the propaganda mills creating the easily digested, easily disseminated slop that gets spammed to this community repeatedly and uncritically.
Israel started this war, both sides would follow Israel’s lead.
To pretend Kamala was different is how you get into this situation.
Removed by mod
Ha! Living here I know most people peaked in 6th grade.
Silly Canuck!
I mean we know that’s when they stopped being able to read…
Ah yes… I watch people when you hand them something to read physically cringe. Granted I tend to hand people printouts from scientific journals but the idea that having to read something of substance still holds.
I’m just imagining you handing someone a stack of paper mid-argument
Literally what we do on the internet lol
IMO Trump is president because he’s a good puppet. Kamala wouldn’t have been as useful I think.
US has hard right and far right. There’s no political opposition
“If women ruled the world”
