The em dash thing annoys me because I actually used em dashes a lot in my own writing. Now I’ve had to change how I write to keep people from assuming I’m using generative tools for writing.
In the plus side, our mayor loves my writing style because he thinks staff should be using AI for everything.
I’ve just been using en dashes this entire time, was once accused of being a bot because I used them, and as a result I found out that I was using dashes improperly — and should instead use em dashes.
I used to like the punch of “It’s not just ___, it’s ___” but I’ve pretty much removed that from my vocabulary.
maybe people have now see the em dash in use enough that they’re observing it’s greatness in real usage!!!
/s
-f pour one out for the em-dash, it’s reputation has been tarnished
As someone that uses AI at work because 1. this is a run-out-the-clock situation, and 2. I don’t give a fuck and would like to be at my desk as little as possible, it feels weird and hypocritical to expect no AI in all of the software around me as well.
With that said, if I still had any semblance of passion for writing code, which I do not, anything I worked on for the OSS community would be fully devoid of AI usage. But I’m mentally at a point where I’d rather move to a cabin and use computers less and less with each passing day.
No, coding should be done to garner clout, so eventually when I start my shitcoin, I can rugpull more people! /j
I don’t give a fuck and would like to be at my desk as little as possible
I always had this stance and found it weird when people resisted. Your boss’s boss’s boss’s boss is telling you to work half as much? Whether you think that the output is half as good quality or not why the fuck aren’t you JUMPING at the chance to do that.
It’s coming after your job. Why would I want to feed my output into the machine breathing down the back of all our necks? I like what I do. A carpenter isn’t going to be happy working in a factory where chairs are made by robot arms. I’m not gonna be happy working in a slop factory
Standing in the Mississippi won’t dam it
I can’t use AI in my job, because I manufacture.
But the HR lady can use it to make policies that are fucking stupid and my direct boss can use it to create an app to more effectively micromanage us without having to actually do the micromanaging himself so he has free time to blow his boss and cook breakfast for 30min on the clock every day.
So yeah I’m not a fan.
It’s valid to feel that way working in software, but try to hold space also for the fact that computing is ‘the means of production’ in the information age, and how it is made and who controls it is inherently political.
EROEI in 1950: 50 to 1
EROEI today : closer to 10 to 1
What is the accelerating rise of m-dashes from approximately 2014-2019 about? That trend apparently continued until very recently, even slowed down a bit, before exploding at some point in 2025 or 2026 for obvious reasons.
Does anyone have a theory?
People slowly learned to use their keyboards for proper typography?
That was a good one.
If the graph is not just using made up data, then it also measures absolute em-dashes, not em-dash density, so possibly could be an increase in interest in contributing to the kernel?
By a factor of roughly 10-fold? Maybe. It could indeed be a measure of overal absolute contribution. But post 2025 that could be influenced by m-dash density especially.
No, the comment I responded to was about the ~2014 uptick, not the recent one.
The recent one is obviously AI one way or another. Absolute contribution rate is higher due to AI as well.
Yeah sure, no I am not surprised about post 2025. My question was indeed about the post 2014 uptick.
I assume it’s due to phone keyboards.
You can get a lot done when you’ve got 29 months in a year
Yeah sorry about that, was the default format in my spreadsheet software and I didn’t think to change it
?
The weird US American Date scheme is not used in most of the world.
I wish. Am European. I know one person that voluntarily uses their date and time formats. For reasons I will never comprehend.
He or she must enjoy the endless confusion and friction in the interaction with others. That said, some idiotic IT systems use the US format to. Causes a lot of problems.
D/M/Y > M/D/Y
There is only YYYYMMDD
sadly for everyone that’s factually incorrect, but the phrase DD/MM/YYYY > MM/DD/YYYY does not preclude YYYYMMDD > DD/MM/YYYY > MM/DD/YYYY
your pedantery is apreciated.
Because one lives the other should not long live Y-M-D
NO. You need a character per digit and you always want the leading 0 shown.
YYYY-MM-DD
At least it makes my folders really easy to sort through…
Only if you leave the leading zeros!
…or your file manager is smart enough to do numeric sorting
ISO 8601 is the only correct way.
OP’s graph uses slashes.
Dashes would remove all the confusion.
No because it’s the global format that typically uses periods.
D.M.Y (normal)
Y-M-D (superior)
M/D/Y (mental illness)Mixing up the formats and denominators makes this mess even worse.
you should also always specify YYYY-MM-DD because often M and D ignores leading zeros, YY means the 2 digit suffix, and Y… well, i don’t even know what that is but i’m sure it’s something less specific than YYYY
if we’re going to be picky about being clear about things, let’s be truly clear about things
Yep, I do it in every format. Just kept it short for readability.
The dates below the graph
What about them? They’re normal dates.
Pretty much only in the US.
Some BS AI “visionaries” keep blurting.
Emdashes on this chart are the Jaws theme of vibeshittification.
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———— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— —— ——
Personally the only part I have seen is documentation is now vibe coded, where in the past, it was autism coded.
As long as it’s short, sweet and to the point and not prose.
“This function doesn’t return an
int*, it returns achar *.”deleted by creator
(Ftr; you’d also see this sort of thing if a new cohort, say ESL speakers from a particular country, was suddenly able to contribute when they couldn’t before.)
Man, I miss when Linux felt like a refuge. It’s always been flawed of course but now it feels like everyone in positions of influence are embracing the awful
And I remember the days when barely any hardware could run Linux. When lots of the interfaces looked like absolute shit and needed a mountain of configuration to even get running. Without commercial support Linux would have never gotten anywhere near the general purpose OS it is today. If you want a pure hobbyist OS run FreeBSD. If you haven’t moved over there, I’m pretty sure you’re just being a hypocrite.
It’s getting harder to justify the inconvenience of going off the beaten path if that path is turning into the same slop as the commercial ones.
I imagine there’s been quite an effort by commercial interests to influence the direction of this path
The beaten path is sloppifying a lot faster than the alternatives and where management gets angry if you don’t use AI.
True, and for most things you get a choice, in contrast to Windows/MacOS. But if the kernel itself slides down this path there’s not a lot you can do unless you’re willing to sacrifice enormous amounts of time and effort.
I’m kind of done with this passion, I’ll be investing more of my time into yard maintenance and my boat.
As an actual human who uses em dashes — or usually, two or three hyphens that turn into an em dash in Markdown — I feel personally attacked.
Found the bot
Microsoft Word also appears to autocorrect dashes into em-dashes. I’m not sure it’s because of copilot since I noticed around 2024, but a bunch of documents I use at work, drafted/revised in 2021, are full of them.
Word has been doing that for decades and I’ve always hated it and turned it off
I will usually just use one (1) hyphen for that purpose - in the much same way that I will use "…" instead of “…” - because I like to upset typography nerds.
Have you tried using the dedicated triple dot character (…) instead of three separate dots (…)? It’s a life changer
They said they do it to ‘upset typography nerds’ — likely they tried…
aren’t those regular dashes? em dashes seem just a bit longer
N dashes. They are as wide as an n. M dashes are as wide as an m.
But what is em?
Em means the letter M. That’s what it’s called. Historically, M in a font was equally as wide as it was tall, so it’s used to refer to the font size.
It’s a width same as point size of a font: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Em_(typography)
Same, but I’m unlikely to use them in comments
deleted by creator
Sure. You can totally avoid them. Just by using very basic sentences. The same is true for a lot of puctuation.
But that doesn’t make your sentences planned better but is simply a sign of limiting yourself by avoiding any complexity.
Bless your — illiterate — heart.
Confidently incorrect. Read a book now and then.
Read a book ✨
No.
What does this say about how LLMs plan their sentences?
Important software that caught buggy code from Linus at review stage? Riight, we are all gonna die, sure
People are so silly. 700 em dashes… Linux is a big project with contributors from all over the world. People probably use LLMs to redact comments when English is not their native language. And yes, people are using LLMs to help them with submissions but there’s 0 proof that any code made it to the kernel without being reviewed properly. This allergy to anything LLM related makes you all look like vegans - a lot of posturing that has 0 real impact. If you’re so disgusted by AI and can’t tell the difference between AI slop and AI assisted code just stop using computers because there’s no way you will be able to do anything without touching AI in one way or another.
What’s with the stupid comparison with the vegans? Vegans have non zero impact towards environment sustainability and their posturing is entirely valid, more so now, given the state of the world.
Your phrasing tells a lot more about your mindset though. A lot of words, 0 substance.
-signed, a non-vegan with a lot respect for vegans
P.S. I am also not against LLM assistance, but also know AI-bros are not to be trusted. With all the money pouring in and so much slop being pushed onto everyone, they will cash out one way or the other. And who’s going to be left holding the bag of all the chaos they’ve caused?
Vegans have non zero impact towards environment sustainability
Not eating meat or eating less meat has non zero impact. Bragging about being vegan and avoiding things like honey does not.
Effectively nobody “brags” about being vegan. It’s not a stretch to conceive that those who have become vegan due to ethical or climate based concerns might have some motivation to be vocal and convince others to go vegan. The most profound way a person can have an impact on the environment/animal welfare after becoming a vegan is to convince another person to become a vegan.
I know plenty of vegans that will not eat anything “contaminated” with animal products, no matter how those were sources. I also know people who simply avoid animal products. There’s a big difference. Simply limiting consumption of animal products as much possible is normal thing people do out of ethical and environmental concerts. Refusing to eat already prepared dish because it has some animal based ingredient is simply wasteful. Same with LLMs. There’s a difference between AI slop and LLM assisted coding. People who refuse to see the difference are as annoying as overzealous vegans.
If youre interested in context:
After avoiding meat for enough years, contamination with corpses of dead animals or their fluids* becomes very unpalatable.
That might be hard to conceive for a person who views it as tasty food rather than body parts, but so it goes.
I surprised myself recently when i accidentally ordered a chicken burger at a drive through. Nobody would have known if id eaten it. it was already prepared/dead/whatever.
I couldn’t do it. While logically i know its edible, it registered akin to eating bugs or something. So i went without lunch
* ‘dramatic’ vegan language used for clarity on how this is perceived when no longer ‘food’.
I find it hard to believe that people will dislike the taste of every possible animal product from every kind of meat to honey, milk, cheese and medicine derived from animals.
When someone starts viewing food commonly consumed by billions of people in the world and forming part of human diet for thousands of years as disgusting body parts it’s more of psychological issue than a matter of something being unpalatable.
You must work hard to have takes this bad, I applaud you!
Tell me you run out of arguments without saying you run out of arguments.
Science says otherwise.
But also Linus Torvald’s position on LLMs is that they’re just another tool, and that there’s no reason to arbitrarily exclude them from your toolkit, no? Not saying I agree with him, but I do think this is his position, and I feel like it would affect how people work on the linux kernel.
How does that affect the way code is reviewed and approved?
You don’t think Torvalds has an influence on that?
Is that graph actually real/based on data?
Yep, I cloned the git repo and wrote a script to step through commits a week at a time and count the total em dashes in the repo at each point in time
git grep -I '—' master | wc -ljust did a quick check, my graph looks similar.
I’ve been using linux for 18 years, but since reviewing the Open Slopware list I’ve been making a lot of changes.
FreeBSD ticks almost every box I need it to. It runs Plasma, it runs Steam/Proton (through a thin compatibility layer that enables a lot of other linux software), it can be set up immutably and has superior containerization natively via jails. It even supports XDG compliance.
But there is no support for changing voltage or clock rate on any amd gpu (maybe any gpu at all) and no driver support for my newer amd gpu at all.
It honestly feels like how linux used to feel back in the day 😅
I don’t think I’m gonna jump ship just yet. The recent ai code fiasco that happened in the linux kernel (race condition, regression, vacation) was averted by the team of talented human developers who reviewed Linus’ code. I am choosing to have faith that it will be ok for a while… given there are few alternatives.
That being said, I think I might finally be ready to hop on the fuck-sysyemd train. I was able to look past the megalomaniacal tendencies of the dev because the tools were so convenient, but the AI PRs and code review pushes me over the edge. I am gonna configure a daily driver in Artix soon.
Edit: I should note, FreeBSD also has some AI code issues. But the linux-libre kernel might not. Something like Hyperbola (GNU/Linux-libre) might be more appropriate for someone who is trying to avoid ai code strictly.
I recommend you looking at RedoxOS. It’s still not stable, but it’s evolving fast and has an anti-AI instance. Also it’s insanely efficient and optimized.
Last I tried, BSD didn’t like the WiFi on my laptop, so it’s currently a no-go for me.
Gonna survive on Linux for now, but at least I know I have a potential refuge elsewhere.
I use Gentoo with OpenRC btw.
can you elaborate on the recent fiasco you mentioned? I totally missed the news on that
Linus admitted he uses LLMs sometimes, so now the most trustworthy developer in the history of computers is now being shat on and raged about by people who probably couldn’t write a hello world app in any programming language. They’re just parroting the idea that Linux is vibecoded now, but it isn’t, and if anything they should be heartened by the recent decision to raise the bar for kernel contributors. Instead, they’re pretending Linus and other contributors aren’t trustworthy at all, based solely on a desire to feel outrage. When people correct them on these lies they’re spreading, no one ever admits they are wrong and stops spreading it, they just don’t respond to comments like that and continue writing them elsewhere.
Tldr; people are stupid.
You didn’t answer the question at all.
I take it you’re another outrage junkie who cannot help but tell everyone the kernel is vibecoded. Your feedback is only valuable in that it communicated that
Linus introduced a race condition and a regression with a AI generated code, then handed off fixing the problem to someone else because he was going on vacation.
Fiasco might have been an exaggeration, but it’s still pretty lame.
Race conditions are not unusual, and it was caught during review, so there’s really no problem here.
pretty lame
lame /lām/
adjective
Disabled so that movement, especially walking, is difficult or impossible.
:/
This is why dictionaries list more than 1 definition and you shouldn’t stop at the first one:
- weak; inadequate; unsatisfactory; clumsy.
a lame excuse.
- Slang: Sometimes Disparaging and Offensive. awkward, dull, stupid, or uninteresting.
- Slang: Sometimes Disparaging and Offensive. out of touch with modern fads or trends; unsophisticated.
People who write this dictionary should listen to the public more maybe. Lame doesn’t mean what you wrote for at least 25 years.
This was caught during review, so nothing was “introduced” quite yet. And there’s no indication that Linus wouldn’t have produced a race condition (a notoriously more easy to miss kind of bug) without the use of AI tools.
It’s only being exaggerated so much because he used AI.
Yea he basically said “This seems to work but is slop, lead Dev, make it real.”
That is something I am surprisingly okay with. Quickly figuring out if something is feasible is good, and doing it in a back of the napkin style is the norm, even without LLMs. Of course then you need to do it properly, without falling into the trap of reimplementing the slop.
I could attribute the race condition just as much to their use of the C language as to AI.
Race conditions I’m pretty sure aren’t language specific. Rust can have them too.
Yes, but the tools provided by Rust:
- Prevent most common ones via aliasing^mutability, Send and Sync marker traits, etc.
- Require explicitly marking the cases not handled by this, e.g. unsafe features require an
unsafe {}block to be used.
Great
This doesn’t make me nervous at all…
It shouldn’t, because it’s a lie.
Not what happened. I’m not digging it up but this story has been debunked repeatedly
(you’re welcome to just point folks to a debunking)
People are welcome to stop spreading the falsehoods. In every thread where this is said (including this one), the truth is pointed out but those spreading it couldn’t care less. Just scroll. Others are pointing out the details here just like every other place.
Literally you got hit with an linux mailing list saying this is what happened?
Those words don’t make sense




























