Plot twist: Theres still hackers in multiplayer even with all that crap plus rootkit they bundle with.
Lmfao at this one dude literally losing his shit and defending this repeatedly in the comments like a fucking Microsoft white knight
That’s what’s pissing me off. People still cheat. It’s not that they have these invasive and stupid ways of anti cheats, but at least they work.
I hate the idea of software/hardware that can prove that the user does not have control over it so much
Nice of Steam to warn you though.
True
Yeah I dont need to play any game that requires me to allow spyware.
Welp, vote with your wallet. Money is the only thing these companies understand.
I just won’t play such games. Simple as.
Just play an indie game, these games will only enshittify more and more.
“enshittification” and it’s toggling two things in the BIOS, with one of them being literally required already by Windows 11, and the other being important for security to the point it should be toggled on anyways.
Literally NOT “required” by Windows 11. You can install 11 without TPM2 support just fine.
Sure, but do you think the average user will actually take their time to find ways to do it unless they REALLY want to install it and their computer doesn’t support it?
Those “features” are not about security. They’re about uniquely identifying the system without using, “personally identifiable information”.
Is everyone in this fucking thread Twitter-levels of paranoid to the point you could rival H.P. Lovecraft??? What are ya’ll even saying. Please get some tech literacy. You cannot identify a system through Secure Boot/TPM 2.0. Microsoft and every gaming company with anti-cheats can do that by simply checking all of your hardware’s signatures.
This was funny to read, can’t deny ur right
The games that require secure boot/tpm already are installing kernel level “malware” so they can do much more with that than they can by knowing if you have tpm or not (which you do because you are playing, so 100% of their userbase will have it).
Ironic comment
What game is it? Name and shame.
Black Ops 7. Its got plenty of shaming going on for other reasons already but this is the first time ive seen this message.
Why am I not surprised. More of Microsoft trying to enforce this bullshit now that they own CoD.
EA does the same thing with Battlefield 6. It’s for the anti-cheat.
Secure boot. TPM2.0. And a kernel level anticheat on top.
Yet, still hackers in game.
I’ve been no-lifing the game since launch and have yet to see any hackers…
It’s odd that I’ve only seen complaints about there being hackers in the game in the context of the anti-cheat. Nobody that I’ve played with or any of the people in my games have complained about hackers, yet every conversation involving the TPM/ secure boot bullshit (which I agree is ridiculous and invasive) involves multiple claims of hackers.
I almost begin to wonder if anecdotal experiences are being fabricated to push a narrative, but then I remember it’s impossible to lie on the internet.
While I agree people’s experiences vary wildly, there’s plenty recorded gameplay video that shows it happening.
That aside, they can take their invasive measures and shove it up their cloud where it can and should operate, not on my goddamn machine.
Havent experienced a single hacker in BF6 and ive played since launch. Maybe you’re mistaking skilled players for cheaters?
Maybe anecdotal evidence from any single person isn’t enough to go on either way, but the topic at hand that video games need access to secure encryption hardware to run probably isn’t super cool should be the discussion
Does it? Other than the campaign being kinda ass and a bunch of assets being AI I don’t think there’s much to complain about this game. The matchmaking is old school, lobbies don’t disband, and the gameplay on MP is solid.
Also, the fact you’re complaining about hackers on it is funny, considering I have literally seen none in the 25 hours I played the Beta and the 5 hours I’ve played the live version so far. All that happened is the aim assist got nerfed so people who are actually cracked on KBM can actually kill people before getting aimbotted by the thumbless controller players.
Not personal, just venting.
As someone who arrrr’d CoD4, MW2, a couple others I don’t remember, and then a friend bought me BO3 for the co-op zombies last year (and my god that menu system is a massive piece of shit), I tried the public beta of 7 like a month ago…
I had to make an account, agree to… 5, I think, different bullshit terms of fuck-you-pay-me, enable SB, figure out the awful menu system again (I’m noticing a trend here), and while the zombies mode was… tolerable, it’s basically the same thing as prior games, just with a new price tag. And, what particularly grinds my gears (assuming the list thus far isn’t bad enough), you cannot download the entire game? Like it requires you to stream it. I have a 4TB raid0 PCIe (add-on style) nvme card, unless the game is a literal terabyte+, I want a full copy. That drive was literally $999 when I got it a few years ago, “I paid for the entire thing and I want to use the entire thing”. Let the console players use their bandwidth to temporarily cache shit, but I have the fucking space, piss off.
Fast forward 10 years when the servers shutter and the game you paid for is missing fucking necessary assets and is thus bricked in a new moronic way. Oh, you wanted to play single player? Hook up for some LAN fun? Nah fuck you, content not available. Retry?
And this shit is $80 base? “I remember when” angry grandpa but they can get fucked. You want $80 for a game that will die in a decade, and I should be grateful for the privilege? Thank you sir, may I 'ave some more?
Maybe I’ll fire up CoD4 again, me and a friend against aimbotting bots. Fun, all local, and Activision can’t nuke it at the flick of a switch.
grumble grumble
Other than a bad campaign, unapologetic AI slop, kernel-level anticheat, a $70 price tag, and being yet another uninspired formulaic installation of a franchise that peaked during the Bush administration, what’s not to like?
Yeah, and then you go back to Steam with your smug-ass smile and boots up Counter-Strike 2 to play the exact same maps with the exact same strategies you were doing in 1999, except now the smoke dissipates with gunfire. So fucking original!
At least they dont release a new counter strike every year with negative new features and a $80 entry fee, in the process leaving your game from last year to die.
Plus CS is an actual good game, cod is just yearly slop
Funny how you say “So fucking original!” as if you aren’t still booting up COD (the thing that stays the same or gets worse, rather than better).
Never played a Counter Strike game, actually!
I haven’t played in yeeeears, but this still hurts my heart a little. So many memories.
battlefield 6 does this, among others
Embark has been killing it. The Finals and Arc Raiders have been filling my multiplayer shooters on Linux needs.
Basically any multiplayer AAA slop recently.
AAA in quotes ofc
They certainly leave a lot to be desired, but AAA is just “had way too much fucking money to make/market this”.
That’s why even I was on Windows, I would avoid Kernel level anticheat.
I know anticheat is important but I wish there was ways to prevent cheaters without running stuff in lower rings.Microsoft just needs to start kicking shit out of the Kernel. Allowing any of it is inherently insecure on a fundamental level.
True
They won’t, at least not for a very long time, because they deeply resist breaking changes, even when they are a net benefit.
I think they are working towards getting everything out of the kernel though, ever since that Crowdstrike outage.
Amazing. Crowdstrike did end up providing some benefit to users after all.
Would be nice to play a game without providing my DNA.
I told you so. You called me paranoid. I said so. Now lookatyou.
Secure Boot and TPM do NOT run anything in the lower rings, ffs. It’s literally a security true/false hash check.
Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot of bullshit with MS’s push for this shit, but I really don’t agree with the collective freakout about it.
There’s plenty of options. Many desktop mobos and CPUs support TPM2 through bios or firmware updates. Other desktop mobos have TPM headers and the modules go for $12-$30, but you have to track down the specific module compatible with your mobo as there is no standard pinout, even within the same manufacturer. There’s also one PCIE TPM2 card I found, but it’s from a company I don’t recognize and their site has no purchase button, just “contact us”, so that doesnct check out as legit to me.
Lastly, TPM2 has been a standard since 2015, with most manufacturers including it starting in 2016. At some point you have to accept that certain experiences will be unavailable to you without upgraded hardware. 10 years out of a computer before you start hitting hard limitations like this is a fucking great amount of life out of it. Like has always been the case, once it hits a certain age you either accept the lack of support or start going down the technical path with Linux to extend the life further.
It’s more unusual than anything. TPM2 and Secure boot are requirements I would expect from a security compliance checklist and software handling at least somewhat valuable data, like maybe a password vault.
A steam game is the last place I would expect this.
Once you delve into the technical specifics of Secure Boot and the TPM, it’s actually not that unusual. I wrote more detail in another comment on this post, but the TLDR of it is that Secure Boot is meant to enforce the integrity of the boot procedure to ensure that only approved code runs before the Windows kernel gets control, and the TPM 2.0 is meant to attest to that. Together, they make it possible for anticheat to tell if something (like cheating software) tried to rootkit Windows as a way to evade detection.
I don’t agree with the requirement, but it’s not a pointless requirement or some grand conspiracy to make people buy new hardware.
Especially unusual bc there are kernel level anticheats that work just fine without it
It is for the anti-cheat, it seems, and for the case of BO7 it seems to actually have worked this time. I haven’t seen a hacker at all.
“There are alternatives! You don’t *have to* own slaves, it’s just an option!”
You’re literally fucking comparing slavery to toggling two fucking things on the BIOS? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Nah fuck that, you gotta go.
This probably isn’t the best place to share the fact I learned earlier this week, but did you know that Brazil received almost half of all slaves in the Transatlantic slave trade? Kinda blew my mind. I only ask because of your meme. From Wiki:
Out of the 12 million Africans who were forcibly brought to the New World, approximately 5.5 million were brought to Brazil between 1540 and the 1860s.
The fact you’re getting downvoted is absurd. Mfs really want to play a MODERN TRIPLE A game like Battlefield 6 or Black Ops 7 with hardware from 2014!! You can literally go on used marketplaces and get stuff from like 2018-2019 that would run those games well enough! Hell, I’m pretty damn poor and I live in a country with terrible electronics taxes, and I still managed to get myself upgraded to semi-modern hardware by buying used, or in case of stuff like RAM, getting kits from AliExpress. I have a Ryzen 7 5800X, 32 GBs of RAM that I got from Ali, and a RX 6700 XT, and I see no reason to upgrade it in the next 5 years or so even tho the GPU is like 3 years old!
We want to do it without providing a fucking urine sample ok
Two toggles on the BIOS that are literally hash checks are an urine sample now? Wow.
rofl you think a newer system is actually necessary? What a cucky bitchboi opinion…
Bro… There is no excuse to have a computer from 2014 anymore for GAMES unless you only want to do light stuff/emulators on it. Like, man, just search on used marketplaces, a B350/B450 motherboard for Ryzen processors costs less than 50 bucks there and they all have TPM capabilities, and you can get a R5 3600 for like 50 bucks 😭
Hell, I’m a fucking unemployed artist from Brazil who managed to get a mid-range PC THIS YEAR!
Missing the fucking point- you should not give up absolute control of your machine at the lowest level to play a shit game
Secure Boot and TPM are literally two fucking hash checks on boot. Ya’ll kids really fucking need some technological literacy. If you’re too lazy to do it AND too paranoid to even be INTERESTED in knowing what it fucking does you should be nowhere near a damn desktop.
Are you dense? This is about it’s anticheat, the reason for requiring TPM. You need some causality lessons
Sorry, I’m not the one having a literal toddler-like meltdown cause a game asked for two hardware requirements you can fix in 15 seconds, and if you really don’t want to, don’t fucking buy or play it. Dunce.
You’re the one ignoring the point. This isn’t just about “two hardware requirements”. Again, exercise causality and maybe read the comment (and the thread) before replying.
e: Also you can stop making up a guy to get mad at, we can all see what OP said, if that’s who you’re referring to
As much as I think that the decision is a bad thing and the justification is extremely shaky, I do find it very odd that anybody is using Windows 11 at all without those things because I was having a hell of a time trying to get it to work even with those things enabled. Granted Windows 11 is also just a piece of shit so who knows?
Sorry to see the downvotes on your comments explaining the technical stuff. You aren’t wrong, but people are cultish and like dog piling.
The entire idea of Secure Boot is to verify the boot chain using signature checks to ensure that nothing “unauthorized” runs in the boot process before control is handed off to the kernel. It’s meant to stop lower bootloader stages from silently modifying or hooking later stages.
In theory, it’s supposed to stop rootkits from being able to exist above the OS, hiding themselves while stealing information or influencing programs. In practice, there’s a shit load of badly implemented EFI programs and bootloaders that are signed and later turned out to be vectors for arbitrary code execution (this is why you need the DBX list to be updated frequently).
Cynically, Microsoft probably came up with Secure Boot because that whole rootkit-and-fuck-with-the-kernel thing used to be one of the ways people cracked Windows 7.
As for TPM 2.0, the whole point of it being used for anticheat is because it stores an immutable log of the Secure Boot process and attests to the integrity of the system. If I installed my own Secure Boot certificates and rootkitted Windows for the sole purpose of cheating, the TPM would see that a self-signed executable was used during boot and refuse to say the system was unmodified.
Edit: The downvote button is not a “I disagree” button. There is an actual technical reason why Secure Boot and TPM 2.0 are used in anticheat crap. I don’t agree with it or that they demand it as a requirement to even open the game, but it’s not some grand conspiracy to make you buy new PC hardware.
You are downvoted for your first part. Nobody is dog piling or being cultish, the person is just being a moron.
We know why they might be used, we just dont want video games demanding shit we dont actually need.
You are missing the point entirely. This shit should not be required to play a fucking video game.
You’re supposed to have both on anyways regardless of a game requiring it or not.
Not at all. PCs do and have functioned without, forever.
😂 for WHAT?
