• AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social
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    9 hours ago

    As an EV owner, I have recieved an interesting amount of reasons why people won’t buy them:

    1. The autonomy is not real (so far it’s been in my case and in any case, in italy, for how people drive, the declared consumptions are all fake because people here only drives by pressing the accelerator to the bottom)
    2. What if there’s a blackout in the whole city and you can’t charge your car? (The whole city, for a long time? I’d be worried about other stuff, but go on…)
    3. What if all the public plugs are occupied when you want to charge and you find yourself without battery to go to "ork tomorrow? (ALL OF THEM? At the same time? And why are you waiting to charge your car until it reaches 1% charge?)
    4. What if you come back from a long trip and have a 10% battery remaining and then you recieve an emergency call and have to leave immediately and you can’t because the 50-60km you have in your battery are not enough to reach your destination? (I can get to a quick charge station and get 200km in 15mins or so? The world is not ending? And if it’s THAT urgent then I should be calling an ambulance anyway, because I probably need one)
    5. I don’t want an automatic car! I love changing my gear! (Thank fuck I got rid of the clutch and the gears… never been happier when I drive!)
    6. Ah… but the speed, the torque of a thermic sports car… (Dude, you can’t afford a sports car, what the thell are you talking about? And even if I can’t either and I have a pretty average EV, you should just press the accelerator of an EV to the bottom and see for yourself)
    7. But it’s all about the feeling… the sound… (oh, I get it now… you want to “feel powerful” making everyone look at you and your noise making machine… yeah, I can’t compete there, and I don’t even want to anyway)
    8. But the electricity is made by burning fuel! (Most of it comes from green sources and, anyway, what the hell do you think your car run on? Water? Are you not very intelligent?)
    9. But the lithium comes from child labor!! (Says while casually using their iPhone, wearing clothes made in a third world country…)

    After this, they usually proceed to make absurd claims like "I don’t care, I just don’t trust EVs.

    • Wrrzag@lemmy.ml
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      3 hours ago
      1. I don’t want an automatic car! I love changing my gear!

      This is me. I have a hybrid car and I miss the stick every time I drive it.

      • AA5B@lemmy.world
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        2 hours ago

        The problem is those days are gone, even without EVs. Between modern automatics more efficient and longer lasting, and cheap reliable CVTs (also more efficient), manual transmissions have no future. I also prefer driving a stick, and frequently complained about limited availability in the US, but technology has passed it by

        • CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de
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          29 minutes ago

          cheap, reliable CVT

          I may be out of date but Nissan’s CVTs self destruct very effectively and Subaru’s don’t handle the torque of the H6 so well. They’re still unpleasant to drive. Give me an EV every day.

      • BastingChemina@slrpnk.net
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        2 hours ago

        I’ve been there, I did manual -> hybrid -> electric.

        I did miss the stick when I was driving an hybrid. In the hybrid it felt like was I had to give away some of the control I had on the car by not being able to change gear.

        With the EV on the other hand it’s totally different, the car is way more responsive, there is power the moment I press the pedal and the concept of gear disappear.

        I don’t miss driving with a stick when driving an EV

    • blauergrashalm@feddit.org
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      6 hours ago

      My reason for not buying an EV: it’s still a fucking car. Bit less shit, but still shit.

      That should be Number 1 Reason to not buy an EV!

      • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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        48 minutes ago

        Well yeah if you can avoid it you shouldn’t buy a car, but if you have to buy a car you should buy electric

      • Allero@lemmy.today
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        5 hours ago

        Agreed! EVs are certainly superior to ICE cars, but they’re a band aid instead of a solution.

        Bring back public transit!

      • bstix@feddit.dk
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        4 hours ago

        Fuck cars alright, but as long as I’m dependant on a car, my no.1 reason to get an EV is that I hate the oil industry even more. Fuck their oil and money and pollution and fuck their wars and politics.

      • MalReynolds@slrpnk.net
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        5 hours ago

        I mean, technically, an eBike is an Electric Vehicle, and not a fucking car. Otherwise, hard agree.

    • turboSnail@piefed.europe.pub
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      4 hours ago

      Here’s a financial argument. The initial purchase price is too high for me, and the depreciation of electric vehicles is also very high. Overall cost of ownership per distance driven is lower if I drive a small gasoline-powered car.

      I really don’t want it to be that way, but that’s the reality I have to deal with. Cheaper EVs are coming, but they still aren’t in my price range.

      • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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        2 hours ago

        Must be a Europe thing. I ran the numbers in America and avoiding gas cost (vs electric cost per mile) means the car paid for itself after 30k miles. And that’s ignoring that it needs no maintenance.

        I thought European gas was expensive. Is the electricity over there also really pricey?

        • turboSnail@piefed.europe.pub
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          24 minutes ago

          Depreciation is a massive slice of the pie in all cars, but EVs are hit even harder. Buying a used EV is probably my best bet in about 5-10 years from now.

          Specific cost of ownership (as in €/m) is what actually matters in the end, but most people ignore it. Usually people just compare gasoline and electricity prices and draw their conclusions based on that. That sort of analysis is not going to give you a very reliable picture.

          Regardless, if I had the money to drive a BMW, buying an EV would be a simple decision. Who cares about the purchase price, ongoing expenses or depreciation when you have that much money. Since I’m not in that market segment, EVs aren’t really a viable option for me just yet.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          It depends where you live. We have cheap gas and I live in an area with one of the more expensive prices for electricity (and there are worse), but “filling up” at home is much cheaper than “filling up” my ice car.

          However

          • yes, we only have expensive EVs here. You can make up an extra $5k of purchase price with money saved on operations, but $10k or more is much harder
          • trip chargers are already in a race for exploitation, profit seeking. Except for Tesla, prices are high, maintenance is low, and they compete for trapping customers more than attracting them
          • since EVs became political we are currently off balance between supply and demand, so used cars are over supplied and lost much value. The quickly changing technology just makes it worse
    • Tja@programming.dev
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      8 hours ago

      Very much similar to my own experience. The blackout is the funniest, because gas stations don’t work in a blackout, while solar panels do (assuming you disconnect them from the grid).

      I would add one:

      • But I couldn’t drive 1.000km without stopping (how often do you do that? It doesn’t seem safe anyway…)
      • AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social
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        8 hours ago

        Oh, yeah! I forgot that one!

        When you ask them how many times they found themselves with a thermic car doing 1000km without stopping they usually tell you: never, but what if I had to?

        Bitch, if you need to do 1000km without stopping, you should be taking a train or a plane. Driving 10-12 hours without a single stop is bad and dangerous.

        • jqubed@lemmy.world
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          7 hours ago

          This was something I realized when we drive to my wife’s parents. It’s 2,000 km each way from our house in the US to where they are in rural Quebec, Canada and we usually drive it twice a year. The charging times sound long, but even with our petrol car most of our stops end up being between 15 to 30 minutes anyways between fueling the car, taking the dog to grass, taking turns going to the toilet so the dog isn’t alone in the car, getting food and giving me a chance to eat so I’m not trying to drive and eat at the same time.

          I think the real challenge of electric range anxiety is that it still takes planning, at least in some parts of the US. There are areas on our route where it might be 100 kilometers to the next fast charger, and there’s no guarantee that all of them will be working or compatible with a car’s fastest charging speeds. We don’t really have to think about where we’ll get gasoline; there’s pretty much always a station, often several, within the next few miles. Usually if we’re waiting to stop for fuel it’s because we’re looking for the best price, looking for a place that might have decent toilets, and/or might have an appealing food option along with the gasoline. That’s all manageable in electric but might need some advanced planning, and many American drivers aren’t used to doing that kind of route planning in advance anymore.

          How many cars in Europe can drive 1,000 km without stopping anyways? The only ones I can think of offhand are large American pickup trucks intended for towing large trailers long distances. I wouldn’t expect to see them in Europe.

          • bufalo1973@piefed.social
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            2 hours ago

            Any diesel can drive more than 1000 km with a full deposit. But laws forbid in some countries to drive more than 2 hours or 300 km without stopping.

      • Elvith Ma'for@feddit.org
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        7 hours ago

        The only somewhat valid use case for “driving 1.000km without a stop” would be several people in the car taking turns on the driver’s seat. While you’d technically need to stop to switch drivers this in itself is way quicker than even a quick charge on paper.

        BUT: considering traffic jams, speed limits and such - a 1.000km trip would take around 10+ hours anyway. You’re not going to tell me that you do not even stop to pee or stretch a bit for 10+ hours, do you?

        • Ms. ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.zip
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          5 hours ago

          While growing up my family once a year would take a 20 hour car trip to visit extended family for a couple weeks then 20 hours back. Parents would do five hour shifts and get the whole thing done in one go. Shift changes meant refuel, bathroom, that’s it. Other than that there was no stopping unless it was a “the next bump in the road I will 100% shit myself” kind of an emergency

          Now personally I’d argue maybe we shouldn’t have been taking road trips in that manner because it’s like putting your body through a meat grinder. But if trips like that are someone’s goal I doubt there are many charging stations in the middle of absolutely nowhere that can fully charge an EV in the time it takes to pee. I’m hoping though maybe a shift to EVs will change the way people approach long road trips to actually force them to take breaks

          • AA5B@lemmy.world
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            1 hour ago

            It takes just one small change …. My family did similar, but those stops were planned for mealtimes. We either did fast food or brought a camping stove, but always ate outside the car. Kids were encouraged to “run down to the end of that path with the dog”. Anyhow, the presence of even a fast food meal meant that there would have been plenty of time to charge.

      • Demdaru@lemmy.world
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        6 hours ago

        gas stations don’t work in a blackout,

        …do US statioms not have their own generators?

    • Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de
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      5 hours ago

      2: I wonder what those people think a gas pump runs on?

      If there is no electricity, then those won’t pump either.

    • MousePotatoDoesStuff@lemmy.world
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      5 hours ago

      I wonder how many of those would not apply to hybrid cars.

      Also, for 8: Making car go by burning fuel in a big optimised plant is likely more efficient than doing it in an engine that has to fit inside the car.

    • PixTupy@lemmy.ml
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      6 hours ago

      With point 2 you can now use a real life case. Last year the Iberian peninsula had a blackout that lasted more than a day. The combustion engine cars could not pump petrol because guess what: pumps need electricity.

    • Electricd@lemmybefree.net
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      6 hours ago

      For a lot of people it’s number 7 and I mean, that’s sad

      1 is real though, and it can be a pain

      There’s also the case where some areas are isolated and there’s no charger nearby and that can be a pain, and yea, that’s not a good spot to be in

      Finally, if you can’t charge at home, you’re not really going to save on electricity price compared to fuel, so that’s not the best purchase, and it might be a pain to charge frequently outside if you have an cheap car that charges slowly

      • bufalo1973@piefed.social
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        1 hour ago

        In the worst case scenario (very high KWh price), charging is almost the same price for the same distance. In the best case (at home) is 10x cheaper.

    • bdonvr@thelemmy.club
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      7 hours ago
      1. Blackout

      Eh? What if there’s a gas supply issue? Can’t fuel up. I’ve experienced this after a natural disaster disrupted gas deliveries. Lines for blocks. Days to wait.

    • Jolteon@lemmy.zip
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      6 hours ago

      My argument: When I can get a decent used EV for $5k, I’ll do it. Until then, I’ll just get a decent used ICE car for $5K.

      • AA5B@lemmy.world
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        1 hour ago

        I always thought this was one of the reasons for an EV incentive. Encourage more people like me to buy the expensive ones sooner to develop the market, guaranteed demand for manufacturers, but that also gets us faster to the point of cheap used EVs

    • Ziglin (it/they)@lemmy.world
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      6 hours ago

      I feel like some of those points are slightly more valid in rural areas (especially in the US, where a power pole being knocked over means that the power is out for hours) where the people making those points are more likely to have grown up. Then again if you are not in a rural point of the united states you are less likely to need a car.

      • llii@discuss.tchncs.de
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        6 hours ago

        If I lived in rural US where the power is not guaranteed I would install PV and use my car as a power backup.

        • Ziglin (it/they)@lemmy.world
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          5 hours ago

          That sounds rather expensive (if PV is photovoltaic). And I was not aware that cars were built to supply power like that.

          • llii@discuss.tchncs.de
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            4 hours ago

            Yeah, I meant photovoltaic with PV. At least in Europe it’s gotten really cheap.

            There are mutiple ways to use the energy that is stored in electric cards. There’s “Vehicle to Load” (V2L) for plugging appliances directly into the car, “Vehicle to Home” (V2H) for connecting your home to the car and “Vehicle to grid” for connecting the car to the power grid and selling the stored energy.

            “Vehicle to load” is also useful when going camping or when you need power when there’s no outlet near you. You just need a car that supports it and a small adapter.

    • trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world
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      8 hours ago

      My reason: the hybrid I have is still working fine and a new car and a new car won’t be in my budget for the next 10 years or so. Also iirc about 33% of the energy a typical car will ever use is spend on its production, so it’s better for the environment to use a car until it breaks down.

            • Electricd@lemmybefree.net
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              3 hours ago

              New drivers will be new drivers regardless. It will most likely just end up as a stored car or a replaced car of another car

              • Successful_Try543@feddit.org
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                57 minutes ago

                a replaced car of another car

                Unless the ‘another’ car being replaced isn’t irreparably broken and just doesn’t suffice our MOT requirements, it’s probably ending in a 3rd world country and will remain in use there (probably instead a cheap light EV).

    • Successful_Try543@feddit.org
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      8 hours ago
      1. What if there’s a blackout in the whole city and you can’t charge your car?

      They couldn’t refuel their ice car either or how do they think the fuel is made to flow “uphill” from the tank in the ground into their car.