- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
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The trackpads are pretty useless on their own but when combined with the virtual menu system in steam they become S+ tier
Definitely picking this up. I’m always interested in exploring new avenues in ergonomics. I got the original Steam controller when it came out. I thought it was an admirable first attempt but wasn’t quite there yet. Particularly I thought the lack of dual analog sticks and a true D-pad was a problem, all of which seem to have been solved here.
I want this controller but split down the center so I can walk with them on a treadmill. There are joycons and third party joycons but none that I’ve found with the little track pads. That’d be HUGE.
It costs $99/€99/£85/$149 AUD
This is funny, because amer*can currency is nowhere near strong enough to be comparable to EUR now
Yeah, but because the price in the US is pre-tax the real price is around $108 which is still less than €99 but not by that much. Also, yeah USD is weakened but that also means people there are making less money so they have less purchasing power, it’s common for companies to price the same thing lower on low-income countries and higher on high-income ones to compensate.
it doesn’t make sense to put only one price without tax
americans have less purchasing power than before not than europeans
it doesn’t make sense to put only one price without tax
That’s done because that’s the norm in the USA, if you advertise a price without tax on Europe you will be legally bound to sell at that price.
americans have less purchasing power than before not than europeans
I didn’t meant to imply that Americans have less purchasing power than Europeans (although they might, I don’t know) but rather than it’s common for companies to price things differently according to purchasing power and while the dollar did lose power that also means it’s people lost purchasing power so it makes sense to keep it the same price instead of increasing it to compensate as otherwise they might loose sales.
For reference, $99 are like 85€ nowadays.
Except EU price has VAT included
Oh, I didn’t know that.
So they earn less by each sold controller in European countries with higher VAT?
Thanks Obama
99€ is with tax and 99$ is pre-tax? No?
Yes
kinda-ish, but why is one price sans tax and the others with it
Cuz other countries have strong consumer laws that make it so the price you see is the price you pay. Whereas here in the US we like to hide things like taxes and fees to 1. Make consumers overspend and 2. Make consumers extremely aware of the taxes they pay so that anytime reducing taxes on the rich comes up they think “yeah, I hate taxes, let’s lower them!”
Since i play mainly racing games with gyro and racing pedals, I’m seriously considering this one. More so because I’m using OG steam controller as my main controller.
I was pretty excited for this controlled but $149 CAD is too much for me.
I’ll be buying it when it goes for sale. Until then, my current peripherals work just fine
While I kinda understand the steep price, not being able to use with other than Steam is a deal breaker for me. Yes, you can create shortcuts inside Steam and use the controller like that probably but still. On the other hand, I can use the old Steam controller even on a browser alongside with the rest of my OS.
Someone will make it work within a few weeks.
That’s pretty huge to me too. My main use would be with Moonlight, an open source version of Steam Link, and if it can’t connect to that Android TV to begin with, it’s worthless.
Strange that the Xbox and PlayStation controllers are now more open and reusable.
Are they? I bought a xbox pro controller for well over 100 dollars and i have to use it wired on my pc because i don’t have a xbox dongle that they don’t sell anymore
I think it’s only Windows and Mac that are like that. Linux you can install just the steam-devices package for Valve hardware drivers.
Yeah, thinking about how SteamOS works, I think we might actually be in the clear.
The steam-devices package is just udev rules and the drivers are already built into the kernel, right? So there’s a good chance you’ll just already have the drivers!
(…in theory. Debian critters may want to run testing+unstable rather than stable for the next while, if the new steam controller needs specially written drivers that won’t be in current stable.)
– Frost
Indeed, and to expand a bit on this, it’s very likely that the drivers have been in the kernel for a while, after all the Steam Deck has the exact same inputs so it’s very likely that it uses the same driver.
Probably. I haven’t looked that deep. I only know that Steam Flatpak asks me to install the steam-devices package from my distro for device support until I do.
Good to hear, good to hear.
fuck em
I replaced the old one with an 8bitdo and it’s great. The old steam controller had configuration issues in many games.
Maybe not the controllers fault but rather the games that do not support it super well.
Xinput is extremely plug and play and steam controller was more time configuring than gaming. Claire obscure 33 did not really support it for me and xinput out of the box.
This controller is very obviously nothing like the original, and comes years after concerted effort to maximize controller support through the Deck.
Scoring only 3.5 for software is pretty ridiculous, since Steam runs in every major desktop OS and SteamInput is crazy customizable. Most dedicated software for devices is either Windows-only or hot garbage (or both).
I feel like people, even here in this thread, have no idea what SteamInput is.
I dunno if maybe the original Steam controller had compatibility issues or what, but SteamInput has likely done away with all of that.
If anything, more reviews should lower the score for shitty software.
I love the OG Steam Controller, and I’m getting the new one for sure, but requirement to use Steam for full functionality is a massive downside.
I call bullshit on that. The OG controller also “doesn’t work outside of steam” and “requires steam for full functionality”, but two weeks after lunch we already had open source projects that handled it, the same thing will happen here.
“I don’t want a steam account” should be perfectly justifiable reason in itself. There is no technical reason why they can’t split up steam input from the steam client for base functionality.
Yes, except it only sells on steam so you need an account to buy one. Also I’m fairly confident that it will just work outside of steam, just not full functionality as that depends on SteamInput for remapping and gestures. Most games don’t handle gyro, trackpads or back buttons on controllers so if you use this outside of Steam you won’t take advantage of those features. But I would bet that it will work as a regular controller even without steam.
Can you even buy this without a Steam account though? It’s the Steam Controller, sold through Steam, designed to work on Steam. A third party driver to convert it to Xinput will probably drop within a week of its ship date (just like it did for the first Steam Controller), but if you’re against having a Steam account I’d wonder why you want a Steam Controller in the first place. There’s plenty of non-Steam controllers after all.
Exactly. If Epic released a $99 controller that required EGS running to work people would be up in arms.
Yeah, if Sony sold you a controller that requires playstation everyone would be up in arms… Ah, no, bad example, their controllers do require playstation and it is an open source driver that makes them work… I know! If Microsoft sold you a controller that requires Windows everyone would be up in arms… Ah, no, bad example, they already do and it’s an open source driver that allows it to work outside of it… I guess this is just more of the same? Except (I still don’t have mine so can’t fully confirm but would be surprised if it didn’t) the steam controller probably works just like a regular controller outside of Steam, you just lose SteamInput which is very important for this controller.
Difference is that those who extensively use Steam Input like me have already been adding games to Steam to utilize Steam Input in non Steam games to set up things like gyro aim, radial menus, modeshifts, action sets, etc.
Steam Input is a powerful remapper and free. Paid options like ReWASD ended up getting people banned, since mouse and keyboard users started using it to cheat by having their mouse emulate a joystick and the company refusing to remove support to bind controller inputs to mouse/keyboard.
It’d come down to how good Epic’s controller remapping software is in supporting advanced configs, and customization for inputs like gyro and touchpads and third party controllers.
Steam’s street cred in danger here. They are going to join them not beat them.
I have been thinking about this for a while, and I don’t think I would be.
A few reasons to back this up, firstly Epic have no hardware background and so I have nothing to have previous excitement over. Compared to Valve, where I have used the Index and I own the old steam controller and a Deck. Epic launching a controller just isn’t exciting to me.
Secondly, there are a load of controllers out there, and a lot of good controllers. If I was only able to use the controller within the Epic launcher, I would just get something else.
Thirdly, this would be an epic exclusive, I am not sure I would have actually head about it. They are impressively good at being a marketing black hole.
I would normally be pissed about it, and do tend to get annoyed at every other controller manufacturer who make it necessary to use proprietary apps to make full use of their controllers.
But in the case of Steam, I’m already using their input software with every other controller I use for the simple fact that it is that useful. Also, it’s probably only a matter of time before there are upstream kernel drivers.
The day GabeN dies I will fear for my game library and all the Steam hardware I’ve bought.
Valves contributions to Proton and Wine already leave Linux in a great place for gaming, with or without Steam. Post-Gabe Steam is simply a matter of going back to the high seas. 🏴☠️
If he’s worth his salt, there will be a decent replacement.
Then don’t buy the Steam controller. I would assume 99.9% of those interested in the “Steam” Controller will have a Steam account
Imagine if Xbox controllers only worked for Game Pass.
Since when have Xbox controllers worked for PlayStation? Plus Steam is free and Game Pass isn’t, so a false equivalency
I want to meet the person who would consider buying this but doesn’t have a Steam account.
(I do not think this hypothetical person exists.)
It’s still a negative because what if you decide you move away from Steam. Are you just going to throw the controller in the bin because you can’t use it elsewhere? Are you going to keep the entire Steam client on your machine just because you want to use the controller? And that’s assuming it’s easy to use the controller with non-Steam games. For example from the review they struggled to get the controller to work with KCD2 because they booted it through Epic launcher and they couldn’t set up the launcher through Steam so they had to take a completely different approach to set up the controller just for KCD.
My entire library isn’t on Steam and that includes games I play with a controller. If setting up non-steam games is a pain in the ass for this controller I’m just going to stick to my Xbox controller because that’s pick up and play.
You’d need to use Steam Input anyways to set up unique inputs like touchpads, capacitive sticks, and grip sensors other controllers don’t have.
Those features are kind of the point of the new Steam Controller and requires user set up on a per game basis, since they aren’t natively supported in games.
So it is pointless to spend more on the Steam Controller if you are just wanting a Xbox controller experience. It’s an enthusiast controller where the extra price is for the inputs other controllers don’t have to set up to be used in ways devs didn’t anticipate.
That said this controller for the price should have had a way to save profiles so they could be used without needing Steam running.
But configuring the controller to work with a game is not the same as configuring the game to make the controller usable. There are a lot of input devices with custom layouts that have its own software for configuring the device and make it usable with all sorts of games without requiring a configuration of the game to identify the controller. And Valve should do the same with the Steam controller, create a software solution that lets you use and configure the Steam controller without needing the entire Steam client and some workaround for games outside the Steam ecosystem. It’s pretty much standard practice for interface devices and I don’t think we should be letting Valve off the hook because Steam is the biggest storefront on the PC market.
Like I said.
That said this controller for the price should have had a way to save profiles so they could be used without needing Steam running.
I read that and found it weird that you’d argue against my point only to turn around and agree with me in the end.
I’m thinking about the people like me who have a Steam account, want this controller, but would also love to use it at our friends’ places where there’s just a Switch 2 or a PS5.
For compatibility, I’m better off using 3rd party controllers.
Yeah, but buy a Switch 2 Pro Controller and try to use it on the PS5.
Vendor lock in is bad, don’t get me wrong but, without Steam, PS controllers have always been a pain to get going on PC. I would prefer they push native level OS controllers, even if it’s just a ‘lizard mode’ but I’m sure the track pads make it more complicated.
You recognize vendor lock is bad, and that’s why they’re complaining, you guys are arguing about nothing
I hope that Steam will enable cross platform compatibility for their controller. I don’t need the trackpads to work on my friend’s switch. Just a 1 to 1 mapping of the buttons from a switch pro controller is good enough.
It’s probably true by definition since I imagine the first batch will only be sold through the steam store 😅. I have the original steam controller and as I’ve been moving towards GOG and Itch my steam client and steam account remains vestigially just as a bloated steam controller driver. Honestly I would also accept it if they let us use the client completely offline without an account as well.
Hasn’t someone written a wrapper to use the original Steam Controller without the Steam client software? I thought that was a thing years ago.
They did, a couple of weeks after launch. It wasn’t hard, it was just a USB device with lots of inputs so the software made a fake controller and allowed you to map inputs, it’s very likely the exact same software would work for the new controller for the inputs that both had. This thread is filled with fearmongering by people who have never held the OG steam controller in their hands and don’t understand this device.
For that matter, the original controller without Steam running had a default mapping that had it output as a mouse and keyboard with sensible bindings. It was called ‘lizard mode’.
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so they would have to write and support a completely new userfacing application that would have to run on 3 different OSes and inject into games upon launch. a bit too much effort considering 99% of the audience will use it with Steam.
It’s called driver config and it’s not a tremendously complicated bit of software. Most of its functionality doesn’t need to “inject into games” - it just needs to remap the inputs so the driver can present them in whatever way works for the game. If the game doesn’t support anything sensible, then maybe fancy stuff is warranted, and you might well miss out on that from a driver config utility. But that’s OK.
I was not arguing against it functioning as a barebones xbox-like gamepad - that should’ve been done IMO. I was arguing against “splitting up SteamInput from Steam” - that would mean extracting all the fancy stuff too, and that’s the difficult part.
I see
It would still be better if the controller did not require Steam in order to function.
Even cheap Chinesium USB controllers work out of the box with default drivers pre-installed with Windows and Android (don’t know about other platforms).
I just plugged in the old Steam Controller on my PC and it works for navigating around KDE just fine. No Steam Client running. Right pad is mouse, right trigger is click, joystick or left pad to scroll up/down.
Weirdly it stops working when I fire up Heroic Launcher so I’ll have to look into that. Works again if I also open the Steam client in the background.
I think that has to do with the old steam controller getting recognized as multiple HIDs, which means Heroic Launcher with activated Gamepad support might not actually work. Try deactivating gamepad support in Heroic (as counter intuitive that might be).
(Can’t try it myself because my ex got my 2 steam controllers for her PC to use as mediacenter from the couch + backup - we used it that way for a good decade and i have no issue learning something else, while she had to learn controllers from scratch when we met and it took a while, and i am not a sadist lol)
Edited to Add: You are using the so called “Snail Mode”, which in addition to being as slow as it gets regarding input sensitivity on the track pad, it also is a fixed configuration which cannot be changed. The right trackpad is a mouse (and identified by the system as such), while most of the buttons and the d-pad map to keyboard commands. Heroic sees a gamepad, but there’s actually no real gamepad input incoming, so it’s not XInput-compatible.
Thanks for all that!
I imagine it’ll be a controller of major interest to get an open source driver mainlined in Linux. Less likely to end up plug and play on windows and mac but I can see something happening on those fronts too
Yeah, I reckon it’ll be supported in short order by mainline hid-steam, seeing as the deck controller isn’t much different.
I’ll probably get one for that reason, but I’m not pleased at the lack of dual stage triggers. I also prefer the pads for everything, so my OG will remain primary until it breaks. I’ll probably wait for a sale on this one or snatch additional OGs.
250hz? Competition is at 8k already.
This is a nothingburger of an argument. But yeah it’s kinda weird considering the rest of the tech they put in.
Huh? Polling rate is of huge importance for many players. There’s a reason response times are first on the list on Gamepadla.
On a controller ??? I am curious i would think it at most ads latency, so it gives new values every 4ms. But that is already measured in the latency test gamers Nexus did, and it performed very good. I think around 18ms (don’t quote me on that). And what is the reason it’s first on gamepedia ?(just curious not meant in bad faith)
Does anyone know if it functions as a normal xinput controller on windows without using steam?
The Controller requires Steam or the Steam Link app. I tested it on GeForce Now via my iPhone and while it did connect over Bluetooth
That doesn’t bode well, but thats also on an iphone.
According to GN’s video, from my understanding it’ll function as a trackpad+keyboard when not running Steam. Hopefully it’ll get an update or 3rd party solution to fix that at some point, but until then, I’ll probably hold off on looking for a way to buy it myself.
I have the old steam controllers and they behave like a mouse on my computers if steam isn’t running. Could be the same thing with the new ones.
According to gamers nexus that is the case.
sadly it won’t work with the Switch 2 I assume :c
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I find it interesting that there appears to be a line (kids that grew up with a Nintendo DS) where people went from loving membrane buttons to hating membrane buttons.
To me, membrane buttons are an absolute Pro.
Some membranes feel like mush, the buttons have WAY TOO MUCH travel, and the buttons wiggle as you try to mount them.
Then there are micro switches that immediately give my fingers cramps, click louder than a Cherry Blue switch, and you can never tell if you’ve actually pressed it or not.
For posterity, I prefer membranes as well.
I don’t think all membranes are equal. Reviews so far are saying the face buttons here are rather quiet but also not as snappy as others (presumably comparing to Deck).
I’d be fine with membrane switches if there were split D-pad options for them. Don’t mind them for buttons, but ever since I got a Stadia controller, I haven’t looked back at membranes for D-pads.
And depending on what you play, membrane controller D-pads wear out unevenly - i had to toss my “Dead Cells”-Controller into my “backup hardware” bin because of the right side input being FAR more easy to press than the left side which messed up more than a few runs - to be fair it took around 6-700hrs of playtime to get there, but it does happen.
Right?! Not to mention the issue with dual inputs when rocking one direction back and forth on the d-pad. Noticed it as I was playing Hollow Knight on my OG Switch with the Switch Pro Controller’s infamous D-pad, which the Switch 2 Pro Controller didn’t even bother fixing.
I went with microswitch buttons for my current controller (cyclone pro) and I honestly regretted it, they feel harder to press and especially hard to spam fast compared to membrane.
Fuck. I was hoping to buy 4 for my kids. Imagine 5-8 y/o holding $400 in their hands.
each would be holding $99, innit?
Maybe they’re an octopus.
More, because plus tax!
2 + 2 friends, 4 controllers 🤣
Change my mind: Xbox-X controller are best controllers.
They are asymmetrical, arguably better from ergonomics. They have replaceable batteries (AA rechargeable batteries have been a thing for half a century). If the battery gets too old to hold a good charge, i can get new (rechargeable) batteries without having to fiddle about to change the internal batteries.
It’s about €60 which goes on sale occasionally and can grab it as low as €40. Perhaps lower but that’s the lowest I’ve seen.
The downsides: due to replaceable AA battery, hull effect sticks are impossible due to them requiring a consistent output. Mouse movement is not a thing unless if you are on steam then it can be programmed different ways (mouse bindings or pressing xbox button and right analog stick and bumpers).
Doesn’t have gyro. I like playing games without aim assist preferring raw input aiming with mouse bound to the gyro.
I’d pick up other third party controllers over a Xbox these days, since hall effect and TMR sticks are standard. Extra grip buttons are common on third party controllers too without paying Xbox Elite prices, which are notorious for breaking down despite the premium price. And lot of third party controllers offer gyro too.
My 360 controller still works and I’ve used them for playing through Yakuza on the PC. But, when it comes to buying a new controller Xbox is last on my list now. Too many missing features while not being cheaper than the alternatives out there.
Yeah I never considered gyro. I don’t play FPS as I get motion sick. The one where vision shows movement and body isn’t moving, compared to the other one where the body is moving but vision is not which I don’t get (e.g. ships, cars, airplanes). I have never thought about this use case, gyro in shooter. Dunno if it also works in other TPS like gta or read dead2.
The last and only game using gyro I played was flower on ps3.
But yeah it’s probably a deal breaker if features you need are missing.
hull effect sticks are impossible due to them requiring a consistent output.
record skip
wat?
Apparently having a replaceable battery and hull affect joysticks are impossible. This is due to AA battery not being able to provide consistent voltage output and hull effect joystick requiring exactly that. Hence all hull-effect joysticks have embedded battery. Which might be a problem specially in EU as they require everything to have removable battery with the exception is if they are IPS something rated.
Don’t quote me on that, it’s second hand knowledge.
Change my mind: Xbox-X controller are best controllers.
There is no absolute best controller, because everyones hands and preferences are different.
Xbox may be best, for you, and thats fine, its great you have a controller that fits your hand comfortably and plays well.
but, for example, for me? Dualshock/Dualsense controllers fit my hands better, and are more playable, because I prefer the symmetrical joystick layout, vs the asymmetrical of Xbox/Switch Pro.
I’m sure theres someone out there where the SNES style 8bitdo works and feels best for them, too.
I think we can, however, universally agree on prices being too expensive for all of them.
Fair point.
My all time favorite controller was ds3. ds4 was pretty decent too but it seemed that ds3 had better batteries. Also the batteries would stop holding charge, most likely the battery capacity degraded.
I then got X360 controller which for some reason was not the best, started preferring the asymmetrical design felt better. I was gaming like a degenerate back then and it used to feel better in long sessions. Although I didn’t like the weight.
Haven’t tried the xbox one controller, the xbox-x controller felt great. Perfect, weighty. I do gave on the newer ds5 controller, it’s alright but feels a bit lighter and weird as I have gotten used to the weight of xbox-x controller. I however haven’t tested games with the new triggers, as i have only played at my friends and party or group games which doesn’t use those.
I still have 2 ds3, 3 ds4, 1 xbox and 2 xbox X controller
The go to is the xbox-x controllers, which probably comes as no-surprise given my original bait of a post :D
The downsides: due to replaceable AA battery, hull effect sticks are impossible due to them requiring a consistent output.
So basically it’s the worst controller imaginable?
Well not as bad as the ones that stop being wireless if the battery goes to zero. Or needs soldering if the battery gets to old to replace the battery.
Depends on which needs fixing more and which is easier to fix between a new joystick with the stick drift or old battery that holds barely any charge.
But to each their own.
Stick placement is not really a factor for ergonomics for me. I had used an xbox controllers for a long time, but now I have a PS5 controller as my current go to. The biggest thing that makes a difference is shape and how it sits in your hands, and for me the PS5 controller is just simply better than the Xbox controller.
I think the best way I can describe the difference between the two is that to be comfortable the xbox controller sits on my fingers where as the PS5 controller sits in my palms. I can also throw in a few other examples of this, PS4 sits in my fingers, but also has the worlds worst and most uncomfortable triggers. The Switch pro controller sits mostly in my palms and is better than the xbox controller but only has digital triggers.
As for the battery, internal batteries are annoying if you can not replace them. According to gamers nexus you can tear down and replace the battery fairly easily in the steam controller, and apparently valve plan to work with iFixit again for spares. So I don’t think this is a big difference either way because of the benefits you get from having the higher powered internal battery.
That also leads to by far the biggest pro. Repair-ability. The steam controller if it is supported like the steam deck is just going to be better.
That is true, there is a reason why all these controllers have a market, people have different shaped hands.
I replied to other comments. Ds3 was my preferred controller but it did give me pain in my hands. DS4 was better than ds3 mostly but i think they had crappier and hard to replace batteries. Xbox360 controllers were good for many types of games (for me) due to asymmetrical design. The left hand on non asymmetrical control feels quite strenuous if you have to use the analogue stick for long time. But in xbox controllers it feels natural for the thumb to pointing upwards while holding the analogue stick compared to pointed to the right. It’s probably because I have smallish hands. PS5 controllers (only played at my friend’s place and for games that don’t use the new trigger mechanics), was actually decent but they feel like a toy compared to xbox-x controller as they (xbox ones) feel nice and weighty, and they do have the same problem of thumb placement when using left analogue sticks.
It is also quite opposite to me, xbox-x controller fits in the palm (for me) as you said but others are awkward to hold, specially for longer sessions.
Additionally, every other controller is a wired controller as soon as the battery goes zero, compared to xbox-x (and also 360), you just swap new batteries. It’s alright as long as you have spare controller so you can swap to the other one for wireless or don’t have problems connecting. I have a projector connected to a self made steam machine and it’s a bit weird to connect controllers to the it or charger and continue playing if the battery runs out.
The steam controllers are quite expensive though.
