“Uptime” — aka the anxiety meter for every sysadmin.
Or if you have a UPS and backup generator or a house battery (do these need a UPS as well still?) it will tell you how long since you setup the system.
I would suspect you would still want a UPS. I don’t think house “power” setups have the switch over speed even if they’re automatic. Most home generator setups are manual not sure about battery setups.
At some point when I am less busy again I think I am gonna swap back to a debian based system because my experience on arch and red hat systems just hasnt been as good (this may be because I started on Debian based systems and keep trying to use commands that dont work on the other ones out of muscle memory)
I get bored every so often and move all the important stuff to an external drive or a separate internal one and completely change my os
I am on manjaro but I have also run arch, red hat, void, mint, Debian, Ubuntu and a bunch of others that I either put on laptops or something similar as messing around with devices
Tails and slitaz have to be my favorite to run from a USB but peppermint isn’t the worst
I just did the contrary. Moved from debian to arch. After the update to trixie my network stack completely died somehow, so I’m going back to arch.
Debian admin here. Even Debian gets regular kernel upgrades that like a reboot afterwards. Security updates are more important than uptime. Also regular testing for clean recovery after a reboot is a must so a power outrage doesn’t bring any new surprises with it. Also test your backup restores regularly.
Even Debian gets regular kernel upgrades that like a reboot afterwards
As someone running a UPS on my ubuntu server, “uptime” represents the time since the last kernel release, and not much else.
Novice homelaber here, is this just a case of apt update & upgrade or is there different commands for security and kernel updates? Also what’s your preferred backup/restore software? Thanks!
Kernel updates are usually held back and need to be selected manually. E.g. apt-get install linux-image-amd64.
I prefer rsync for private backups and employ bareos in my company for all servers.
I think you can do
apt upgrade --updatenow.🤯
‘apt --upgrade -U’
WHAT. Does this do both sudo apt update and sudo apt upgrade?
see also –autoremove
Your note is very interesting about the difference between the commands and how autoremove will automatically remove stuff before or after the upgrade is performed. Should it always be done after, or are there instances when running it before is more beneficial? Is there any need to do both like this:
# sudo apt --update --autoremove upgrade -y && sudo apt autoremove -yI can’t really imagine a benefit to
--autoremoveexcept for keeping old packages a bit longer before removing them.Eg, if you run
apt --update --autoremove upgrade -yonce a day you’ll keep your prior-to-currently-running-version kernel packages a day longer than if you ranautoremoveimmediately after each upgrade.To make things more confusing: the new-ish
apt full-upgradecommand seems to remove most of whatapt autoremovewants to… but not quite everything. 🤷
I think so. I read it a few months back, but I don’t use any apt based systems to check on.
Also worth checking out restic. It’s more command line oriented and is generally stateless
Oh, never heard about it. A quick research showed me that restic is a very viable solution. Thanks for mentioning it, I added it to my comment.
While researching, I also came across a fancy WebUI, which is mostly what non-CLI users want: backrest
I configured restic once, forget about it and saved my files because it was making backups since forever.
Thanks just installed immich and I need a quality backup system.
I appreciate the link!
Nope it’s just apt update & upgrade. Iirc apt tells you when the kernel was updated and needs a reboot as well.
full-upgrade probably a better pick
Only if you installed the package
needrestartNot if you use Proxmox! One has to be careful.
I’m not the person you asked the question of. I’m a fellow novice homelaber.
I use Kopia to backup my data folders and Docker container data. Works really well. The project for this weekend is to set offsite backups to be uploaded to iDrive.
When I update I use this:
sudo apt update && \ sudo apt upgrade -y && \ sudo apt full-upgrade -y && \ flatpak update -y 2>/dev/null; \ sudo apt autoremove -y && \ sudo apt autoclean && \ sudo journalctl --vacuum-time=7dYou can get rid of upgrade if you also use full-upgrade
Yeah, people that brag about uptimes are just bragging about the fragility of their infrastructure. If designed correctly you should be able to patch and reboot infrastructure while application availability stays up.
I haven’t had a kernel update on Debian that triggered the “you should restart” message in quite some time. I was under the understanding that most newer systems now use splicing at the kernel level to not require periodic reboots.
Check for the existence of the for containing packages that recommend a reboot. Debian does not do live patching like Ubuntu does. Not least because updates to firmware are usually not applied until reboot. Also even if that were the case, regular checks for healthy reboots make sense.
I haven’t seen it in a while either, but also, if there is a kernel update,
uname -salways returns the old kernel until a reboot.
Can I ask, what is the advantage of a Debian server over a True Nas one? Asking because I set up True Nas and wondering if I should switch it to Debian
Configurability? I mean Truenas Scale is also based on Debian, but it’s an appliance software, if you want NAS it’s purpose made for that. You need to configure Debian yourself if you want functioning NAS.
I still remember when TN doesn’t have native Tailscale apps/docker yet and everytime there’s a Truenas update I need to reinstall and set up Tailscale from scratch.
If you just need a NAS with basic apps/docker, there is no reason to just use Truenas.
I use both, but run a Technitium DNS and Frigate on bare Debian.
True nas is nas software that moonlights as a server. Debian is a linux distro commonly used as the operating system for servers due to its incredible stability and reliability among other things. So reliable infact that it’s used as the operating system for true nas scale! So unless your using the core version (that runs bsd) then your already using it. As far as rawdogging Debian on your hardware goes, id recommend against it unless you’re looking to seriously up your admin game. No web interfaces, lots of time in the terminal ( command line ) and more configuration files than is anyway reasonable. And we haven’t even started on virtual machines like proxmox ( also Debian based! ) or container critters like docker and kubernetes. (Iirc true nas uses kubernetes under the hood)
alt-text
___alt-text: The “I lied, I don’t have netflix” meme template. The girl with heavy dark rings around her eyes points a gun at the observer, with various images inserted in the background. The images include references to debian, libreboot, rsync, sed&awk, cron. The text reads: “I lied, I don’t have netflix - Take off your shoes, we’re going to learn to setup a NAS with Debian customized and automated to the bone and also automate the deployment process with Kubernetes. Everything will have 3-2-1 backups and controls will be networked to the volume slider in the radio of your car. We will use the motherboard of your calculator because it’s supported by libreboot.”
You seem like the right person to ask this:
What route do I go if I want to up my admin slowly so I eventually feel able to run pure Debian? Currently running Docker on Unraid with two minor VMs but looking to migrate away from Unraid with the intention to only run FOSS (and get a deeper understanding of everything under the hood).
I know that’s little information, all I need is a nudge in the right direction so I can figure things out by consulting documentation and forums.
If you can afford it it’s a good idea to buy a Raspberry Pi since Raspbian is basically just debian. Then replicate your current setup on it and just try to tinker with it without any risks of breaking things or losing data.
If you’re using a lot of Docker I would recommend learning the command line since you’ll be able to use Docker on basically any real OS at that point.
Welcome to home labbing… you poor fool!
Honestly figuring out docker is 50% of the journey with the other 50% mostly being networking. For instance if your looking to start your own Jack Sparrow themed streaming service you’d want to grab a domain name, point it at your ip, open up ports 80 and 443 on your router, install a reverse proxy via docker and set up SSL ( hint: Caddy makes this easy ) and point it at your jellyfin docker container and voila, your very own streaming service you can access from anywhere! Notice the complicated part of all this is mostly the networking and docker setups, not so much the OS that your running. ( Note: don’t open ports without knowing the risks )
Debian is a fine OS but most homelab stuff can be done on anything you can install docker on, even on a windows computer! That’s not to say you shouldn’t learn some Linux server stuff but it isn’t wholly necessary. That being said…
My best advice for getting into Linux servers would be to grab an old PC, laptop or even a raspberry pi and install Debian, raspbian or any other distro on it. Figure out how to log in via ssh and get the thing running headless ( no keyboard or monitor ) and just learning to navigate and do things via the terminal. Some of the basics would be learning to use the package manager to install software, mounting the file system remotely and figuring out how to setup static IPs and such. When your ready go ahead and install docker, follow some tutorials, learn some yaml and your off to the races!
Small correction: since the newest version there only is Trunas Scale, so the Debian derivative, which they now call Community Edition. The BSD variant has been decommissioned as far as I know.
Debian is well known for maintaining established packages in its repos. This means that all of the software is thoroughly tested, and therefore (usually) stable; however, the software in question is generally older, so it also means that sometimes you’ll have to find your own approach if you want to run any newer services.
This is why we have UPS ;-)
Seriously, one black out and suddenly you see the need for a UPS. Now my desktop is on a USB, my work laptop and monitors are on a UPS, my homelab is on a UPS, even my modem and router are on a UPS. I just wish I could get a backup generator, but that’s not happening anytime soon.
I sometimes have power outage in winter (snow storm, ice, etc) and working from home I need a UPS ; modem cable, router, PC, monitors, are on it, it can stand ~5h
My experience with using an UPS is that they have caised an outage every few years, which is more often than we get power outages where I live, so I didn’t replace the batteries last time the UPS took down my server, and are just running straight from the wall. It might be better with a more expensive UPS, but it’s not worth it for me.
I got tired of my network puking every time the power went out for 5 seconds.
Edit- My NAS really dislikes having the power cut off.
Yep, the black outs have stopped now but for a while it was a daily occurrence. My NAS took a beating and so did my desktop. I spent a ton on ups’s to make sure that stuff was protected and bonus, I wouldn’t loose connection while on phone calls with government officials while at work… they get pissy when you suddenly drop off.
At least in my experience the chances that I move or replace hardware are much higher than the chances for a power outage.
For me I won’t be replacing and video cards or ram sticks for the foreseeable future.
Same… but I also remember a single outage in the last 15 or so years.
Heard of tuptime? I’ve been using it for a while now, I think I like it.
System startups: 151 since 18:00:05 10/11/15 System shutdowns: 137 ok + 13 bad System life: 9yr 223d 1h 27m 47s
Longest uptime: 106d 5h 34m 28s from 14:17:10 26/03/22 Average uptime: 23d 4h 32m 0s System uptime: 99.81% = 9yr 216d 12h 31m 51s
Longest downtime: 4d 23h 30m 48s from 10:36:53 14/09/23 Average downtime: 1h 2m 46s System downtime: 0.19% = 6d 12h 55m 56s
Current uptime: 25d 0h 34m 25s since 20:25:37 15/11/25
My father was an HPUX admin that had a server with an uptime of >12 years
I was introduced to homelab by trying to figure out how my uncles setup. It ran for 4 years after he died, 11 years uptime. The estate probate prevented anyone from touching the equipment for the legal fights, and I get a kick out of thinking of how smug he would have been about it.
So, you never update the kernel?
Mine’s not connected to the internet so I’m utilizing the if it ain’t broke don’t fix it strategy.
@NullPointerException @yesman debian never updates it
manNot much, time. What’s up with you?
total erection time
Priapism isn’t a good thing.
Never heard women complain about it.
What if I have a really good UPS with like a whole day’s worth of juice?
That’s either an impressive UPS or an impressively low power server. Either way, congrats!
It’s a giant hamster wheel connected to a generator I run in 😃
I wish my daughter’s rabbit wasn’t so lazy. I’d join you in the dream of animal powered infrastructure.
Anker have up to 3.8kWh stations, goals. This or Anker’s equivalent of the Tesla Powerwall, wall-mounted energy storage.
That’s pretty impressive. I have a “big battery” that still isn’t that big, but I don’t consider it part of my wacky constellation of UPS devices. It’s more of an “oh shit, no power, make sure the food doesn’t go bad” and keep the refrigerator going for a day kind of thing.
Oh yeah, I think maybe a bunch of smaller UPS is better than one massive one - can’t always power everything from one point aha
Let me tell you though, when the power goes out it is like an unholy choir of beeping. Our pets think the apocalypse has arrived.
danggg I wonder how long that bad boy takes to charge after an outage. The page says the solar powered one says < 2 hours but I don’t know if I trust that. Thats an insane charge speed for solar
In a critical environment the UPS only has to last as long as it takes to switch over to a backup generator.
I only get about 7 minutes out of mine but that gets it through most power outages.
I like having a consistent update and reboot schedule. Uptime feels overrated over stability and clearing the RAM occasionally.
I definitely have some Docker containers that randomly stop working, and they are more often consistently fixed by a reboot of the machine rather than a reboot of the container or the Docker service.
Clearing the ram? For what purpose?
Not to mention the security implications of not rebooting after certain updates.
- Uptime : up 2 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 7 minutes
Had to reboot due to Jellyfin weirdness, It’s not happened since so maybe it was patched whatever happened.
They screwed up their upgrade script in the release around then. I spent an hour manually fixing it on my system. I’d imagine they sorted it with a point release shortly after but I haven’t checked.
I had to reboot since i upgraded nvidea and jellyfin stopped transcoding.
Why type
uptimewhenwis sufficient?What the hell!?
?
