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- hardware@lemmy.world
- technology@lemmy.ml
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AI has taken more things since it’s big push to be adopted in the public sector.
Clean Air
Water
Fair electricity bills
Ram
GPUs
SSDs
Jobs
Other people’s art and writing.
There are no benefit to this stuff. It is just grifting.
If you need SATA SSDs you are not a home user.
Just use a HDD for your bulk needs and a SSD m2.
A SATA SSD is a good way to speed up an aging machine, one without M2 slot. But glad to know I qualify as a professional user.
You could still stick an NVMe drive on an older system as a secondary drive, eg. as a /home drive if you’re running Linux on it, by sticking it on a riser card, although you’d still need to boot off a SATA drive, and you’d take up one of your expansion slots doing that.
M2 slots are standard for more than a decade.
And those machines are still good enough to browse the web, or for text processing. I usually set them up with a small SSD for booting fast and a large HDD for the /home folder. Hell I keep a D410PT around for the times I need an absolutely silent machine (Well, as soon as I buy a picoATX for it, it will be. Too bad I missed the computer-2 case).
Does Samsung even sell a small SSD? I thought they start at like 128GB
I needed a SATA SSD for my raspberry pi 4 connected via usb3.
I am a home user.
Fair point. What the fuck are you doing with it?
Do you enjoy being an ass?
It’s sort of not needed. M.2 for the OS, HDD for extra stuff like steam/epic games.
HDD for games? Enjoy your loading hours!
HDD works for media, allright.
After looking into it, yeah, that’s valid. Seems like SSD offers 5x-10x better loading times.
No that’s not correct, a lot a consumer hardware have SATA port (like old laptop)
Replacing old HDD into SSD SATA to run the OS is the way to go in this case.So not so useless…
The leak comes after another report detailed that Samsung has raised DDR5 memory prices by up to 60%.
MF… And why they wind down SSD production this time? Last time was 2 years ago, because the SSD prices were low and they wanted to raise them (which happened).
Because AI is better for €€€
As long as they keep selling the flash memory chips to drive makers, what’s the big deal of them dropping the SATA protocol from their consumer devices?
There are plenty of China-based companies which still make flash memory drives with a SATA interface using Samsung chips and at this point that tech is so mature that there really isn’t any great added value in terms of performance from getting Samsung SATA drives over getting some generic SATA drives with Samsung chips.
It actually makes some sense that Samsung is focusing their consumer-facing device production in a higher performance protocol which is very well established now and were the device speeds are not constrained by the protocol itself, rather than in a protocol were the maximum speed of the protocol (600 MB/s) is actually what constrains the device performance since the memory chips themselves are capable of more.
As a consumer, 6 or 7 years ago it definitelly made sense to get a Samsung SATA drive because they were actually some of the fastest in the market, but these days even shitty-shit no-name brand has SATA devices with 580MB/s read speeds (and, if large enough, similar write speeds) which is near the theoretical maximum of SATA3 and M.2 devices supporting PCI4 x16 offer several times the speeds of that.
I take issue with this forced distinction they are making
Micron, like Samsung and SK Hynix, already supplies memory chips directly to third-party brands such as G.Skill and ADATA. Even without Crucial-branded kits, Micron DRAM continues to reach consumers through other manufacturers, meaning overall supply remains largely unchanged.
Nobody ever officially suggested the Crucial supply was likely to shift to the other manufacturers for consumers. On the contrary people expect this to be a step towards a general redistribution of manufacturing capacity towards HBM for parallel compute products.
By comparison, Samsung exiting SATA SSDs removes an entire class of finished consumer products from one of the world’s largest NAND suppliers. Tom argues that this is why the Samsung move is “worse” for consumers: it directly affects how many drives are available, not just who sells them.
If you wanted you could make the same argument as for Micron. Who says the Samsung NAND couldn’t be bought by other OEMs to make consumer SSDs. It’s just as possible as the Micron supply shifting to other OEMs who make consumer RAM sticks.
To me neither are likely. The manufacturing capacity both companies are pulling from the consumer market in both cases is going to go to the higher profit margin parallel compute server market. Neither is worse than the other, they are both equally bad news for us consumers.
On the contrary people expect this to be a step towards a general redistribution of manufacturing capacity towards HBM for parallel compute products.
That is where much of the overall wafers are going. But that would be happening regardless of whether the Crucial brand is around or not. Even if Crucial was still a thing going forward, those same wafers would still be going towards HBM.
I think he hit the nail on the head when he said that Crucial being cancelled is just a symptom of our shit market, not one of the causes.
Who says the Samsung NAND couldn’t be bought by other OEMs to make consumer SSDs
His point is that Samsung (the manufacturer) is scrapping production, not that Samsung (the consumer brand) is stopping selling products that otherwise are still being produced and sold under different brand names.
Stopping production of something sold under many brands is obviously a lot worse than a brand stopping sales of something that other brands will still sell (albeit in lower quantities in previous years due to HBM production being ramped up at the cost of DDR5).
This is non-news puffed up for engagement, isn’t it? Samsung doesn’t make IDE hard drives any more either.
They’re still making mobos with SATA. Not everyone uses laptops.
Most reasonably priced power edges on eBay don’t have NVMe sleds yet. Some of us selfhost, y’know…
Not everyone uses laptops
I didn’t say that.
Some of us selfhost, y’know
I do too. But I’m pretty sure, while selfhosting may be common here on Lemmy, that it’s not entirely common amongst wider population?
If you look at the top sellers, SATA SSDs still occupy a few of those spots, including 3rd place.
There is still huge demand for SATA SSDs.
Fuck em. Last time i bought a samsung ssd it went from 100% to 20% SMART overnight and just outside warranty
The issue is that as dumb as it is, SATA ssds are still a big part of the consumer market.
Even though nvme isn’t appreciably more expensive to make, it’s still used as a “premium” product., and SATA is a product tier to capture budget market whole protecting their more premium market.
This move is a clear symptom of the real issue. Manufacturers shifting as much capacity as possible towards big datacenter buildouts at the expense of starving every other market for these products. Trillions of dollars that will pay whatever it takes competing with a more rational market
This bubble is going to become the entire market, isn’t it. Until it becomes too big to fail because 80% of the workforce is tied up in it. Then it is allowed to pop, costing the western world everything, all going into the pockets of the super rich, and we get to start over.
it becomes too big to fail because 80% of the workforce is tied up in it
In 2008, banking sector and auto industry needed bailouts for the investor/financial class. Certainly, there was no need to layoff core banking employees, if government support was the last resort to keep the doors open AND gain controlling stake over future banking profitablity in a hopefully sustainable (low risk in addition to low climate/global destruction) fashion. The auto bailout did have harsher terms than the banking bailout, and recessions definitely harm the sector, but the bailouts were definitely focused on the executives/shareholders who have access to political friendships that result in gifts instead of truly needed lifelines, or wider redistribution of benefits from sustainable business.
The point, is that workforce is a “talking point” with no actual relevance in bailouts/too big to fail. That entire stock market wealth is concentrated in the sector, and that we have to all give them the rest of our money (and militarist backed surveillance freedom) or “China will win” at the only sector we pretend to have a competitive chance in, is why our establishment needs another “too big to fail moment”. We’ve started QE ahead of the crash this time.
Work force is relatively small in AI sector. Big construction, but relatively low operations employment. It displaces other hiring too.
the shoe event horizon.
Then it is allowed to pop, costing the western world everything, all going into the pockets of the super rich, and we get to start over.
After the bailouts at the expense of the poor, of course.
I heard a theory (that I don’t believe, but still) that Deepseek is only competitive to lock the USA into a false AI race.
It’s the space race all over again!
that would be the funniest thing.
That’s the entire point. It’s a scam.
Compared to crypto and NFTs, there is at least something in this mix, not that I could identify it.
I’ve become increasingly comfortable with LLM usage, to the point that myself from last year would hate me. Compared to projects I used to do with where I’d be deep into Google Reddit and Wikipedia, ChatGPT gives me pretty good answers much more quickly, and far more tailored to my needs.
I’m getting into home labs, and currently everything I have runs on ass old laptops and phones, but I do daydream if the day where I can run an ethically and sustainably trained, LLM myself that compares to current GPT-5 because as much as I hate to say it, it’s really useful to my life to have a sometimes incorrect but overalls knowledgeable voice that’s perpetually ready to support me.
The irony is that I’ll never build a server that can run a local LLM due to the price hikes caused by the technology in the first place.
It’s the difference between a pyramid scheme and an MLM: one of them has a product in the mix.
I’ve become increasingly comfortable with LLM usage, to the point that myself from last year would hate me. Compared to projects I used to do with where I’d be deep into Google Reddit and Wikipedia, ChatGPT gives me pretty good answers much more quickly, and far more tailored to my needs.
Please hate yourself, reflect on that and walk back from contributing to destroying the environment by furthering widespread adoption of this shitty technology. The only reason you seem to get “useful answers” is because of search engine and website enshittification. What you are getting is still tons worse than a good web research 10 years ago.
Basically you were taught to enjoy rancid butter because all restaurants around you had started tasting like shit first, then someone opened a rancid butter shop.
I do agree entirely. If I could use the internet of 2015 I would, but I can’t do so in a practical way that isn’t much more tedious than asking an LLM.
My options are the least rancid butter of the rancid butter restaurants or I churn my own. I’d love to churn my own and daydream of it, but I am busy, and can barely manage to die on every other hill I’ve chosen.
problem is that the widespread use of (and thereby provision of your data to) LLMs contributes to the rise of totalitarian regimes, wage-slavery and destroying our planet’s ecosystem. Not a single problem in any of our lives is important enough to justify this. And convenience because we are too lazy to think for ourselves, or to do some longer (more effort) web research, is definitely not a good excuse to be complicit in murder, torture and ecoterrorism.
web search isnt magically going back to how it was, and its not just search engines its every mf trying tk take advantage of seo and push their content to the top, search is going to get worse evry year, ai did speed it up by making a bunch of ai images pop up whenever you search an image
Cries in PC gamer
I’m glad I already have a good setup and shouldn’t be buying anything for a good while, but damn it. First the GPU, then RAM, now SSDs.
Next step, modular desktops as a concept will die, probably.
I hope people like locked-down black boxes they can’t upgrade and can’t run their own OS on in the future, so byebye Linux and BSD in that scenario outside of niche devices.
At the same time, just expanding a device with new parts is a far cheaper way to get more performance than buying a new device - after all, whatever price problem there is with some kinds of parts, it will be the same whether they’re sold as lose parts or as part of a device.
Poor working class young me in a poorer European country after getting his first PC quickly found out that to get a more powerful machine he had to start upgrading that machine because there wasn’t money to buy a whole new one every couple of years.
My point is that this might very well yield the very opposite effect of what you describ: buying whole devices to replace older models becomes too expensive so people favor more expandable devices - because those can have their performance improved with just some new parts, which are cheaper than getting a whole new device - and the market just responds to that.
I think most people in countries which until recently were wealthier, such as the US, are far too used to the mindset of “throw the old one out and but a new one” which is not at all the mindset of people in places were resources are constrained or require a lot bigger fraction of people’s income to buy (certainly my experience living in the UK after having grown up in a country which was much poorer left me with that impression: the Brits just felt incredibly wasteful to somebody who like me grew up in a situation were “gettting a new iPhone every 2 years” was the kind of think only a rich person or a stupid person would do).
whatever price problem there is with some kinds of parts, it will be the same whether they’re sold as lose parts or as part of a device.
didn’t actually read the article, but the Micron/Crucial announcement was about leaving the DIY direct market, as opposed to not keeping supply deals with OEMs. Though new contracts with them will be higher.
What makes you think that? Even as prices rise, people are still buying and building PCs.
Eventual discontinuation of more PC parts to appease the AI grifters until all that’s left for consumers is mini PCs or ARM black boxes.
But that hasn’t happened at all and there’s no evidence of that happening? To my knowledge at least. If you have some I’d love to see it.
I’m just speculating on what could happen if this stuff gets worse.
The AI builders must be buying all the fab time and components to go to the build outs.
Desktops will go first and fade as the entire production chain stops.
Notebooks will be next, at least PC parts have a premium price, notebooks are too cheap to avoid it for long. Game consoles will face the same pressure.
The supply shock is going to be as bad as COVID.
The supply shock is going to be as bad as COVID.
- No, it’ll be worse, it’ll be straight-up apocalyptic. GenAI grifters are trying to cause an apocalypse.
what’s baffling is that modular desktops are probably a better long-term money making strategy for hardware makers. When you can cycle gear with ease - the temptation to try something new will be bigger.
I ordered an S10 tab, paid my first rate, they finally try to order it, inform me it’s gone from the page, and try to get me to pay MORE for a weaker device.
I refuse, ask for a refund, and that is how I got screwed over last moment from owning something I need, just before the crash.
I ordered an S10 tab, paid my first rate, they finally try to order it
Who is “they” in this? Some sort of intermediary you were using?
This seems like a non issue dramatised for headlines, they are phasing out outdated sata connection to only favour current m.2.
It’s like gpu and motherboard manufacturers announcing they are no longer including VGA ports in favour of DVI display port and HDMI. I don’t think that was a bad thing.
I’m sure some people who are lucky enough to have hardware that still requires SATA want to keep upgrading to new SATA devices but it’s been enough time. I’m ok with just m.2 now.
Tell that to my school division’s IT department, who have us all running Displayport to VGA adapters, attaching to our monitors and projectors via VGA. This is because our displays are either a) too old and only support VGA and DVI in, or b) they purchased displays with HDMI, but our ThinkPad laptops only have Displayport out.
Sometimes it is more a matter of mixing and matching tech in large cash-strapped systems that might get slapped by these issues as well.
And yes, those adapters cause as many headaches as you might think.
Yeah my recent IT experience is similar. I redeployed monitors that had “vista-ready” badges on them during the monitor shortages of 2021-2 I’ve replaced so many of those analogue to digital adapters (usually because the computer only has 1 digital output and 2 displays to drive, or 1 HDMI and 1 DisplayPort but the displays only support HDMI and I only have VGA to HDMI adapters, etc.)
The challenge simply comes down to the fact that displays tend to last so much longer than the computers they’re connected to. Heck my wife is using my old 1080p monitors because they were an upgrade over the even older 720p monitors she had before which may well find themselves mated up to my kids’ new computer
There are millions of devices that still and will continue to use SATA.
My Synology NAS only accepts SATA. So if one of my SSDs dies I’m just shit out of luck and have to find a 8 bay M.2 NAS to have a comparable alternative?
Your comment is beyond ridiculous
- Don’t use SSDs for a server…
- They make SATA M2 adapters
- Seriously are you putting sata SSDs in your NAS? Don’t…
Don’t use SSDs for a server…
lol
There are plenty of reasons to put SSDs in a home server.
And most are wrong or unnecessary. What movie requires SSD performance?
There are definitely valid reasons to use SSDs in a server/array. One of my proxmox servers runs 4x m.2s in raidz1 so all my vms are super snappy. Depending on what you’re running you can really see benefits, for example:
- Elastic Stack
- Network storage for photo editing
- Lemmy
- Immich
Pretty much anything with a lot of metadata or tons of files will see benefits from running on SSDs, this comes with the caveat that cheap ssds wear quickly and are a pain in the ass but if you need it, you need it
Ok. But then you are not a regular person running a regular home server but an enthusiast with small scale commercial needs.
I think anyone running a home server qualifies as an enthusiast, there are more uses for home servers than just plex lol
Indeed.
It’s standard distributed systems design to have a hierarchy of storage with different speeds whose contents is allocated based on the frequency with which certain data is accessed, and HDDs are really only good for bulk data which is seldom accessed (basically the speed category for long term storage with low wait times when it does get needed but not really meant to be constantly accessed, which is just above things like tapes and other backup storage methods).
So for example for a dynamic website with thousands of users most current data should be in SSDs and HDDs would maybe contain low access info such as historical data from the last couple of years and in front of those SSDs there would be a ton of memory to serve as a cache for the most accessed of all data (say, the CSS, JS and images of the home page) as in-memory data is even faster to access than data in an SSD.
The idea that SSDs aren’t useful for servers is hilarious ignorant.
Can we just burst this damn AI bubble already?
The ai crash is going to slap the tech industry hard
Not just the tech industry. A huge proportion of the US economy is made up of betting on AI. Like the crash of 2008 (but worse, some predict) it will hurt everyone but the richest, who will become even richer.
There are a number of simultaneous bubbles at the moment, the AI one being a lot like the Internet bubble of the late 90s but possibly worse (bigger share of GDP and it seems there is actually less value in most of the tech invested in as “AI” than on the Internet-related tech) and at the same time there is a financial debt bubble like in 2007 (in the US mainly around loans for car purchase, but more in general overall consumer indebtness has reached the 2007 levels), a worldwide realestate bubble (measured in terms of house-price to income ratios) and a stockmarket bubble measured in terms of P/E ratios, just to mention the biggest ones.
The risk is that when one blows the rest blow by contagium: something the 2008 Crash showed us is that in modern markets when there are sudden large losses on a asset class it pulls money over to cover them from all other asset classes, in turn creating downwards price pressure in those other asset classes, which in turn might cause price collapses there with large losses and that will pull even more money out from other asset classes. IMHO assets classes with historically high valuation not backed by fundamentals (for example stocks with P/E which are 10+ times the historical average) are likely to be far more likely to collapse when money gets pulled away from them to cover losses elsewhere. Also there is the panic factor: fearing exactly what I describe, many investors will preemptivelly sell their assets in those assets classes they feel as more speculative - i.e. less supported by fundamentals - possibly creating the very problem they fear in those markets by starting a stampede to the exits.
All this to say that I expect this one when it blows up will be bigger than 2008 and 2000, possibly bigger than both of those combined.
Going by inflation adjusted market cap values, it certainly looks like the financial facet of the AI companies alone are bigger than both those events… This is going to be beyond messy…
Yet another chapter in the fucking AI craze started up by them fucking techbros.
Also, someone forgot that in some places in the world, people have to use older PCs with SATA drives. That, until their discontinuation announcements, Crucial and Samsung SATA drives were several tiers better than, say, those cheapo Ramsta drives.
Discontinuing outdated tech has nothing to do with AI. SATA SSDs need to be retired. NVME is superior and widely available.
Especially since you can get M.2 to SATA adapters, so people stuck with SATA only motherboards can still upgrade their storage.
Literally the same deal when companies stopped making IDE drives, people just used SATA to IDE adapters instead.
Do you know of any m.2 to SATA adapters that support NVMe? Or are these only for Sata M.2s?
Man, it sure would be helpful for my argument if I could.
I went back and checked the ones I was looking at, very helpful fine print stating “not for NVEM ssds”, so they all only work with mSATA M.2 SSDs, hell of a let down.
Despite how similar the interface is the protocol is completely different. NVMe is basically just PCIe, so adaptating it so that it runs “under” SATA would be difficult if not almost impossible. And most definitely not worth the extra price.
Isn’t the source of this one of those YouTubers that just throws everything at the wall until they get something right?
He seems to be one of the less accurate ones, yes. Turns out when you use really wide brackets for numbers predictions, that makes it easier to get things right (who’d’ve thunk) and even then he only gets like 50% of claims right.
I knew I should have hoarded devices. Could have at least profited from selling RAM…
