Sell the bonds to whom, Ben? Asian Aquaman?
I understood that reference
Trump admin: let’s crash the global economy because it will force an asset bubble onto the EU, a crisis that will benefit the most wealthy like 8 people on the planet while harming most everyone else. This will solidify whoever can deliver this gift as the members of the ruling class of their respective hemispheres. Our military power will ensure we can just take what we want from whoever we want, destroy the EU as a regulatory hegemon, so the international ruling class can raid their social democracies like we did social services in the USA. It will also strike a blow to China whose relative strength is propped up by some amount of control over their economy, allowing them to avoid severe financial crashes, even though they have a number of huge bubbles within their own economy that might be forced to burst! Disunity among nations is a boon to big money, and we will all become kings
EU: bored after reading the first line Lets destroy the global economy first!
Guys its gonna be a wild fuckin ride, buckle up
It’s a global pyramid scheme. They can’t just pick and choose.
I wish an action like this would actually change things in the US, but it wouldn’t.
The American people would continue to suffer and die–the most vulnerable and already marginalized first. Conservatives will get more hostile toward everyone else because of scarcity. They’ll start shooting people at Wal-Mart over bread.
The rich will just white-knuckle grip their off shore bank accounts and move elsewhere.
deleted by creator
Thank you. Let’s use this. Becoming the 3rd superpower of the World
Boromir-ass take, have you not read Lord of the Rings?
Yes, but hej goes for total domination, I just wanna be left alone, and make sure people who doesnt quickly thinks otherwise.
He just wants to defeat Sauron and protect Gondor, a motivation strongly parallel to your own. I’ve been seeing a lot out of the EU basically advocating for becoming the next USA to deal with our bullshit and… my response is basically “please no, why, not again, you can do so much better”. Please learn from our mistakes, do not adopt and perpetuate our ideology in the process of defeating us like we did against the Nazis
It seems very obvious to me it will either be the Euro or the Chinese Yuan(?)
Very forward looking. \s
Bitcoin is not a real currency, and anyone suggesting it as a new standard should be mocked. It’s too clunky, too slow, and too prone to fraud and theft. The only real uses for Bitcoin are gambling, fraud, and buying drugs.
Keep telling yourself that while clutching ugly green paper covered in enslavers.
2012 called and they want their Bitcoin hate slideshow points back.
This would be like taking Musk’s money by making him sell his stocks. Once the market is flooded with paper, it becomes less and less valuable, very quickly. Musk doesn’t actually have hundreds of billions anymore than the UE has trillions in US treasuries.
I know that’s ridiculously oversimplified, but someone has to buy those bonds, and the later you are to the selling table, the less you get.
Finally, somebody with understanding of how bonds REALLY operate and their purpose. What is in all those memes, are just “wet dreams”, that are far from reality.
Yep, the massive bond dump is just a meme. It’s financial MAD and would destroy the the finances of the countries selling off. Nobody wants it.
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but aren’t we locked in a weird cycle where the US sells its debts to continue functioning, but then much of the system relies on the revenue generated from those debts being paid by the US.
If a sell off were to begin the price of bonds would plummet. The first countries to sell would be least impacted, but eventually the later countries are in bad shape. You can say sell at the “exact same time” but that’s not really how financial markets work.
I suppose the US is still more reliant on these bonds, but I’d imagine a crashed dollar would have pretty large ramifications globally.
Of course of of this will happen anyway if the US decides to invade Greenland.
I can see where countries no longer invest in US bonds, but may be forced to hold onto these to not take a budgetary hit.
That’s how it could create a runaway snowball effect. The first few countries to sell off their US bonds would be in the best position, after that the bonds’ value starts to dip. Other countries see that and decide to sell off now before it gets worse, and the value dips further, accelerating as more and more countries realize they need to dump their US bonds asap cause it’s only going to keep plummeting. The last ones to notice or act on it will be stuck with worthless bonds that will never recover their value.
That’s how it would result in total economic collapse for america, and knowing that the sooner you drop the hot potato the better is what will create the rush to sell them off as soon as possible. How many initial sell-offs it would take to precipitate this effect is the question.
And since the crashed dollar will lower the purchasing power of anyone whose wealth or income is primarily in US dollars, anyone who drops these assets ahead of the game will be in the best shape. That’s why a lot of US banks are currently buying gold; it’s very likely to hold its value and is a very stable asset.
Assuming countries drop their USD-based assets before the crash, the relative values of their currencies should remain similar. For instance, the EUR to GBP conversion rate wouldn’t change much. The more heavily invested in USD a nation’s economy, the more detrimental the impact would be on their currency.
Commodity prices measured in USD for example would skyrocket, because the relative value of the USD would be crashing, but any currency that untethers from the US economy in time should remain stable relative to commodity prices, or possibly see some advantage if it gains value as a result of the USD crashing.
This is all contingent on countries dropping their US bonds and other assets, of course. The more dependent their wealth is on the US economy, the more detrimental the USD crash-out will be to that country and its currency. All the more incentive to be among the first to drop their US assets.
Even if they decide collectively not to do this, the AI bubble is going to burst sooner or later, and the further they kick the can down the road the worse the crash is going to be. Along with other trends like the US reversal of green energy initiatives while the fossil fuel industry is beginning to show cracks, the impending collapse of oil prices, etc., investing in USD is just really bad fiscal policy. People are only still doing it because they believe they can hold the jenga tower up long enough to grow their portfolios just a little more. Their greed will kick them in the ass if they hedge their bets too far…
I believe this ignores the ripple effects of a crashed US dollar. Unfortunately world economies are intertwined in a way we’ve never seen before.
I don’t think either the Euro, USD, or Pound could collapse without dragging down the others indirectly. There’s a reason to 08 crash was felt worldwide.
Don’t get me wrong it would be the worst for the United States and any nation that fixes their currency to the dollar. But probably quite painful to downright disastrous for many other nations.
Of course all of that happens anyway if Trump does the worst of what he says.
In my view, that can only be mitigated by detangling other economies from the US. Selling off treasury bonds is one step. Increasing tech/data sovereignty is another, as well as shifting reliance to more local supply chains and manufacturing. And moving assets to the European market (in Europe’s case).
Any steps to boost sovereignty and independence help to reduce reliance on the US, and mitigate the impact of a US economic crash. The lesson learned from 08 should be not to depend too heavily on US bubble economies.
Besides, the US hardly manufactures anything. They export corn, soybeans, petroleum, and cloud-based software. And US treasury bonds, whose only value is that people agree that they hold value. What happens when people suddenly realize or decide that they don’t?
Grains and legumes can be ground elsewhere; arguably better. Countries already are and must continue to reduce their dependencies on fossil fuels; petroleum will not be a major commodity for much longer, no matter how the industry kicks and screams and colludes with the US government for corrupt advantage. Lastly, the shift to tech and data sovereignty must happen anyway, and is happening. The sooner other nations get their data off US-based cloud infrastructure, the better off they’ll be.
There’s no downside, other than reducing one’s dependency too slowly and being among the last to jump ship before it sinks.
Hardware they have a monopoly on hardware.
What hardware is manufactured in the US that can’t be sources elsewhere?
Yeah… The really bad part is that it would be most harsh on countries with unstable currencies. The USD is basically the foreign currency reserve that backs most poorer nations currency.
Countries could slowly start exiting the US bond market, but they would have to find a replacement, and nothing has been as stable or financially open to scrutiny as the USD.
Even if more countries switched over the yuan it’d have to be a slow process. There would also be a lot more blind trust involved since there’s a lot of things done behind the curtain between the national bank and local government banks.
If Trump gets his wish and co-ops the Fed, they might as well start dumping USD. It’s going to be on a wild ride after that.
I would be skeptical of them “dumping” anything, but they probably would start to slowly diversify their reserves.
Right now there isn’t exactly a replacement other than gold, but that’s really impractical as a replacement for the bond market.
there isn’t exactly a replacement other than gold,
If only there was another currency used by a number of different countries.
What does France and Germany use? Can England back their pounds on the franc?
What does France and Germany use? Can England back their pounds on the franc?
Are you asking if the EU can use the euro as a reserve currency?
Every sale requires a buyer
A treasury bond is basically an IOU: the treasury is legally bound to buy it back.
Maybe it’s pedantic, but the Treasury doesn’t really buy them back. A Treasury bond is basically “the Treasury will give the holder of this bond X dollars at Y date”.
Nothing forces the Treasury to buy bonds from the market, but they are bound to pay the specified amount on the specified date.
The problem is, in a bond market collapse, inflation is going to skyrocket, and the bond holder has no option other than to take that hit because the payout is fixed.
That’s what I meant by IOU. The treasury gives them the money, they return the bond, and it goes in the shredder. Of course it happens electronically these days, but before the internet there was a physical sheet of paper that was exchanged.
So instead of renewing/rolling over the bonds, countries can decide to collect the money owed and the US treasury can’t say no.
If they’re selling on the secondary market before the time is up, yes that’s different. But if everyone decides to sell then supply outpaces demand and the value drops. Then nobody buys new bonds from the US and they still can’t borrow, and have to default on their loans.
Who enforces these laws on the international stage?
If the US refuses to honor its treasury bonds, then the promise to repay them means nothing and they lose their value. That would be a different way of crashing the US economy.
No one would let them borrow money anymore, meaning they would no longer be able to afford to pay the interest on the debt they’ve already accumulated.
All this shit didn’t even have to happen but for the sack of rotten oranges posing as the president. WTF.
We need to fix the system that allowed him to become president. Both the electoral structure and the right-wing propaganda machine. And the useless opposition.
That would be the education system, and Republicans have spent decades doing everything they can to destroy it.
The education system is dominated by the left, what are you talking about.
It’d be nice if the USA could set its own house in order.
Yes that’s exactly what the thing you replied to said thank you for your contribution
Living in the US for long enough, I know they will never fix anything proactively. They will patch and patch and patch, saving every possible cent, until shit collapses and it’s too late. Everything is like that here. They fix the symptoms, never the cause.
They put their founding in a fairy tale story. And say can’t change the constitution even though it has been changed.
And was SUPPOSED to be changed generationally according to slave owning rapist Thomas Jefferson.
The house is working as intended
Let’s not forget outside influences in elections.
“The system” that enabled him is a little over half of American voters.
Worth sharing: William Spaniel on YouTube is a political scientist, has written books about this kind of stuff, and REALLY knows what he’s talking about. He discusses world events like this, and breaks them down really well so it’s approachable and understandable for a clueless layman like myself. His videos are short and to the point, and can be listened to like a podcast instead of watched.
He mostly talks about wars, how and why they start, what is likely or unlikely to happen, things like that.
His latest video from yesterday about exactly how America’s Greenland ideas would backfire: https://youtu.be/mQGMGnhC-NA
exactly how America’s Greenland ideas would backfire
He sounds like a smart guy, but people keep treating this insanity as if it’s not intentionally destructive. It’s not backfiring if the point was to cause division and chaos.
The goal of a system is what it does, and everything. But I doubt most people participating in this are accelerationists.
His videos on Israel sure seem to whitewash genocide from what I’ve seen
Can you be more specific?
He doesn’t tend to at all, ever mention anything like right or wrong, morals, stuff like that. He talks about geopolitics, negotiation power, what states and militaries are capable or doing or what they’re likely to do. I can’t recall him ever saying any opinion about who’s morally right or wrong. So I don’t see how what you said could possibly be, but if it did, please share a link and a timestamp.
Why Did the Israel-Hamas Ceasefire Take So Long?
At the start, 0 - 57 sec, no mention of the repeated history of Israel deliberately sabatoging the ceasefire process for the entire first two years of the genocide. Also no mention of Gaza being a captive civilian population, that’s been under Israeli Apartheid for over 70 years.
At 3:07 to 4:30, he states that one of Israel’s primary objective is the retrieve all the hostages and that if Hamas wanted to end the war, they would need to return them all as a prerequisite.
No mention that Israel had repeated stated that eradicating Hamas took priority over the hostages, nor that Hamas has been willing to release all the hostages and give up governance of Gaza to a technocratic Council of all Palestinian factions since 2023.
He also states that Israel needed to take enough militants prisoner in order to level the playing field for the ceasefire. Which completely ignores one of the major reason for the Oct 7th operation, to release the thousands to tens of thousands of Palestinian prisoners (most of which were taken without evidence or trial, including hundreds of children, and systematically tortured while captive). The scales were already tilted far in Israel’s favor when it comes to hostages, yet it’s framed as necessary to even out the playing field for the ceasefire.
Again at 4:40, again he falsely states that the ceasefire would leave control of Gaza to Hamas, ignoring the technocratic committee. Also ignoring the actual Israeli war goal, the complete ethnic cleansing of Gaza for settler colonialist expansion.
At 7:17 he states that preventing normalization between SA and Israel is a main factor. Which while it is a factor, still ignores that ending the Apartheid and Occupation is the main factor.
At 7:40 he frames the US as a third party, which is completely ridiculous by all accounts.
At 8:05 he calls the Camp Davis Accords “peace in the middle east” which is also wrong, it was counter Insurgency and a continuation of Apartheid.
He doesn’t tend to at all, ever mention anything like right or wrong, morals, stuff like that
Genocide is a systematic form of destruction. It’sconcerning, at the least, that he fails to mention both that it is a genocide nor how exactly Israel has mechanized that destruction. Such as targets, how they determine targets, or really any nature of their military operations. He also omits the US’ financial incentive of Weapon Manufacturer sales to delaying a ceasefire, as well as the ideological component of Zionism and geopolitical component of instability in the region.
Sorry, I don’t feel like slipping into a huge argument. Most of what you said, I don’t feel is relevant criticism for the video, it basically amounts to “he didn’t say the things that I wanted him to say to confirm my opinions”.
But I don’t want to spend hours dealing with your gish gallop so you win.
Anyone who doesn’t blow hamas at every chance they get is supporting genocide, according to some people.
The dude’s username has “stalin” in it, I don’t think they’re capable of formulating a good faith argument.
Is that what you reduce anti-colonial resistance to?
You don’t have to blow hamas in order to take an anti-colonial stance, and if you think otherwise then you’re proving my point.
If you actually flesh out your point, maybe we can have an genuine discussion.
If you can’t recognize the difference between being pro-palestinian and pro-hamas, then you’re not worth having a serious discussion with.
By the way, the Israeli government would like nothing more than for the world to view the two things as the same. It’s the same as conflating anti-zionism with anti-semitism.
And if you think it’s not a real problem and only exists in the imagination, then you should read more about some of the “activist” groups in the UK.
deleted by creator
I’m betting it’ll go the other way- the USA declares insolvency (cloaked in freedom or whatever, of course) in the farce version of the Nixon shock and Japan’s and EU economies implode from the massive loss of value on the books. China will be ok though, and Russia too since they have pretty much USA proofed their economy (it’s shit, but it’s still USA proof… so shit+).
It’s economic warfare and the Epstein Empire is winning. Liquidating treasuries would definitely be a way to fight back, but will anyone have the guts to do it? I’m betting no.
Edit: that $2.34 trn figure includes the UK (about $750 bn), and Starmer is such a basketcase you can’t count on him to do anything except twiddle his thumbs. Even without the UK though it’s a massive figure.
Yup, sadly I think this is where we are going, Trump will say that Usa won’t pay anything anymore, and that it is the rest of the world that should owe him trillions, killing the dollar, the world economy and maybe launching a new crypto trump coin. All this during a climate crisis he does everything to make worse.
If this worked, China would have done it already and Japan would have been using that as a leverage.
No it would definitely work, they just don’t want to because they’re all answering to the same powers (capital)
Veto would easily break the agreement, the central eu bank doesnt have that much power over it and US would get us back in other ways, since we rely heavily on their intel, cloud services, military weapons, tech etc…
The USA can simply refuse to pay up. However, that would instantly crater their credit rating. Going from AAA straight to D would make future lending very expensive.
Countries basically can’t work without borrowing money. That’s what these treasuries are. The EU holds a crapton of US government debt; 10 trillion dollars with all types of assets combined. Liquidating them sends a clear message that US debt is no longer worth holding onto. That leaves us with two scenarios:
- The USA pay off their debt, instantly draining trillions of dollars out of their coffers. They will have to issue new bonds to pay for this; issuing this many bonds for this reason will be seen as a sign of economic weakness and lack of reliability. Even with their AAA rating, the USA wouldn’t get great deals for those bonds and their main customer has just called it quits. The credit rating may be reduced because of this.
- The USA refuse to pay. That’s equivalent to being unable to pay; their credit rating instantly goes to hell. The only reason people love to lend money to countries is because those debts are stable and reliable. If a government fails to pay their debts back for any reason, especially at that scale, that government instantly loses all credibility as a debtor. That means future US debt won’t be issued at something like 1% interest but more like 10-20% interest. And that interest will have to be paid, reliably, if they want any chance of climbing out of that hole.
Either way, it’s economic warfare, and not the border skirmish kind. This could very well completely fuck the US economy for decades.
Would the USA retaliate? Sure. But this is already in a scenario where the USA pose a direct military threat to the EU. It’d simply add another layer to the war.
Where are you getting those figures? The TOTAL foreign held treasuries are around 10T (EU combined, without UK, has like 1,4T). US also does NOT owe repayment on demand. The COVID exceeded $4T without systemic collapse, although it made the market “feel” it. Theres no way to… financially nuke an economy, using bonds. You cant even sell them back to the US, youd have to sell them to China, Japan… other countries.
They can flood the open market with cheap bonds, meaning that when the US auctions off freshly minted bonds, they’re worth significantly less and therefore yields are significantly higher, which can lead to a death spiral of either: 1) the US has to continuously issue bonds at higher and higher yields just to pay off the previous round of bonds, 2) the Fed prints money to buy the bonds and the dollar collapses, or 3) the US just doesn’t pay, and then we’re basically back to 1 moving forward.
So yes, bond dumping can definitely fuck up the economy.
If I’m not mistaken, the US has 5 nuclear missile installations in the EU. Talk about the call coming from inside the house!
China is doing that already, and Japan has been using it as leverage for several years.
Just consolidate all EU member countries debts and watch
