- cross-posted to:
- stallmanwasright@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- stallmanwasright@programming.dev
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I have yet to own a vehicle made in the 21st century.
I’m terrified of having to get a vehicle that requires software updates that eventually will stop receiving support. I’m also terrified of getting a vehicle with just generally shitty software. My gf’s car has awful software and there’s nothing she can do about it.
Just give me 90s era cars again. They last forever and they’re easy to repair on your own.
There’s lot to be said for physical safety features like side and curtain airbags, or better crumple zones that don’t crush your feet, but those were pretty much standard by 2012 so you can have those without all the computer nightmares.
You just throw it out and buy a new one. Duh.
This is what the GPL was meant to fight against. Having boxes running software that is still under the control of the manufacturer.
Instead people complained that it was hard to use the code at work. YES. THAT’S THE POINT.
Sure but that’s also the reason stuff like this isn’t GPL. For-profit software simply isn’t going to use the give-away-for-free license.
You know it might make sense for automotive. The car is the product after all. The quality of the engine is ultimately what drives sales and most of the entertainment is traditionally third party. Making the on board stuff open helps them make a platform for third parties that are safe from manufacturer trying to push them out or collect fees. That environment also helps the manufacturer in its own sales as their cars are where the cultural impact is.
Sharing code makes sense for everybody. It lets them spend a lot less resources on fixing shit if everyone else is also doing that somewhere upstream. With FOSS you can have your cake and eat it too. At some point Google calculated that committing one developer upstream for the Linux kernel can save a company the equivalent of a couple dozen specialist developers downstream in bug prevention and feature alignment across vendors alone.
Unfortunately many companies continue to think about code as if it were potatoes. It doesn’t fucking matter who owns the code, it’s a functional spec. But hey, look at all the trouble we have explaining why standards are good – nevermind opening code.
Ohh for sure. That is also my position. I was just pointing out that people do not pick a car for the entertainment, but it can sway a purchase. An auto maker that keeps an open platform might have a stronger third party market that helps sway people into their cars, so even in their “we are trying to maximize our profits” still have a reasoning for it. Of course good luck telling senior management.
The cloud? I’ve owned many a vehicle who’s company doesn’t exist anymore XD No car should be tied to any cloud or connectivity crap for use
We must create some legalisation on this else a buch of smart cars are going to turn into dumb bricks.
In contrary to what many are saying I don’t think going back to plain cars is the solution. I think an open standard would be the solution here to provide an option to self-host or connect to provider.
Doesn’t even need a technical solution. Could just be some law that in order to sell a vehicle:
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A company has to maintain any cloud support for at least 20 years.
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They have to put up a bond that will allow such services to continue even if they go belly up before those 20 years are through.
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All vehicle features where cloud connections are not essential to their function must be operable without any cloud connection. So it’s fine if after 20 years you can’t pull the contacts from your google account to display on the car’s screen, or if GPS map updates no longer work. But the door locks or seat heaters better not be cloud connected.
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vehicle … cloud
Flying cars sure turned out differently than we imagined in sci-fi.
Why are you buying things you don’t own?
Sooner or later that might be your only choice.
I expect my next car will be a used one. If offline cars will be oulawed I guess it’s time for (cargo) pedelecs. So there are choices, though increasingly shitty ones.
All good and swell until they’re not available and you need to cart around others/start a family/etc. It will work for a subset of the population, but it needs to be gotten in front of now if we want to avoid waste.
Hopefully those in charge will be on this. I know I won’t. :(
My time horizont is 20-25 years. I think I can manage. Younger people should solve it for themselves.
Younger people should solve it for themselves.
This is the boomer mindset that got us all into this mess. Fuck you.
When did you stop dreaming of the future?
The future isn’t what it used to be.
In a sane world, there would be a law that forces certain types of features to always work.
Cloud connectivity can have benefits but honestly, 95+% of a car’s feature does not need the internet
We need a Stop Killing Cars movement
A lot of people don’t realise SKG is a foothold in exactly that fight. If you establish precedent on something as “frivolous” as video games you can use it on much higher value thing too.
I still don’t understand why people call the biggest entrataiment industry “frivolous” especially when some stories are better than many films i saw
Just part of a long trend of devaluing all artistic pursuits.
I counter: !fuckcars@lemmy.world
Most cars throughout history have had zero need for the internet. I just hope it does not end up like video games, where they can sell an unfinished product and patch it later. Though there are benefits to that model, but recalls exist for a reason.
I just hope it does not end up like video games, where they can sell an unfinished product and patch it later.
Too late. This is already the case, I don’t know of a single EV that wasn’t buggy on release and still buggy a year or two afterwards as the manufacturer hunts bugs in a leisurely pace. It already is like in the gaming industry. Don’t buy an EV that isn’t at least one year old on the market or you will become their free of charge beta tester…
Anacdotaly I suspect most car software bugs aren’t hunted or patched at all, unless an exec at the company happens to run into the bug in their personal vehicle and flags it for the development team to fix.
I’ve heard too many stories of car software issues where the dealer gives it back with a note “reset the battery and tested good” but the bug is still easily reproduced.
I just hope it does not end up like video games, where they can sell an unfinished product and patch it later
Tesla has been selling a “full self driving” subscription for years.
And if Musk hadn’t bought a president, they would have been prosecuted for their crimes.
Get a ninth gen Corolla and you’ll have no problems
Can’t find any near me, I’d have to fly to another country to get one that’s not full of rust holes and decommissioned due to failing safety inspection which doesn’t allow for perforation.
Is this article presuming that this isn’t part of the plan? Auto manufacturers think our brains work like “oh no, my connected service was end-of-lifed. Guess I gotta buy a new car.”
People already have been brainwashed on “how many years of security updates does this smartphone model have?”, and being paranoid about older-than-a-few-years devices, so you’re not far off.
(Not trying to diminish the necessity of software security updates, but at the same time I could not find any Android exploits that do not involve users installing malicious apps, supply chain attacks, or state actors)
My phone has access to my bank app, my car does not.
… yet.
With OTA updates eventually they could FORCE you into buying a new one.
I hate the privacy nightmare cars are turning into.
Or it’s just incompetence, short sighted planning to please the shareholders
In my opinion it should be illegal to shutdown as long as they have cars. I would not buy any device that requires internet access to work with basic functionality.
You can’t really write laws that just require people to offer a service indefinitely though. That’s how you end up locking some poor bastard in jail who honestly tried to start a good car company up, did the best they could, and then saw it all go under. No one would ever start a car company, lest they risk imprisonment if the thing went bankrupt despite their best efforts. Starting a car company is already a hugely risky endeavor. Now you’re asking people to risk imprisonment if the company fails. I’m generally in favor of locking up more CEOs. But there are plenty of ones committing real crimes. We don’t need to be inventing new ones to trap otherwise innocent people.
The way to do this right is to mandate a long but still limited period of cloud coverage, say 20 years. And require companies to put up a bond to cover the cost of third-party hosting these ongoing cloud service in the event they go bankrupt. Then also require all essential functions to work without cloud connectivity.
Basic stuff like connecting vehicle to WiFi and apple play should be enough imo. Adding internet to a car is just an added cost
Not if they can harvest your precious data.
I meant cost to the consumer
We’ll see if we get to, given how controlling corporations are rapidly becoming over necessities of modern living.
it bricks permanently.
My car is so old it makes its own cloud!
Time to switch to an EV
True. But actually I don’t have a car. My last car decades ago, had a cassette player. But that had Auto Reverse. When it reached the end of the tape it would play the other side without you having to eject the tape and turn it over!
Time to switch to a CD
F that noise. 8 track for the win!
String quartet squeezed in the back seat or GTFO.
Look at the queen of England over here with a car quartet! We just had a couple hillbillys with banjos in the rumble seat of our jalopy AND WE WERE THANKFUL.
Luxury! We had a kazoo strapped to a unicycle and we were glad of it! All 15 of us!
You buy a new one so the c level can buy another yacht
