The reason the FCC is only allowing the sale of state approved routers in the US?
Product idea: clothing with jaged edges and radio absorbing plates.
How do they identify a particular person though? I get you could see people as present or not or moving around the room, but it’s insane that they would be able to tell facial features etc.
A paper from around a decade ago talked about using WiFi to identify key strokes so with large data models we have today I would assume they could get pretty good fidelity on a person. Maybe not enough for “beyond a reasonable doubt” but probably enough where your WiFi company is selling your data on what you do at home
Height and build alone would narrow it down significantly.
Very interesting concept. I was curious about how in the hell this could be done. This article explains the general method.
When an inert object like a person moves around between the router and stationary connected devices like computers and printers, it interferes with the signal. The pattern of interference plus math can be used to plot the movement of the object - and even measure subtle changes like hand gestures. Home security software from companies like Xfinity can already use this tech to send you an alert when something is moving around in your house, without needing additional hardware. Imagine an informercial where a guy holds up a handful of “clumsy motion sensors” with wires sticking out of them, and “confusing instructions”. Not if you just let your router do it!
As far as being a new and sinister means of surveillance, evil companies could already theoretically tap into anybody’s motion sensors or security cams. The difference with WiFi tracking is that you wouldn’t necessarily know it’s there.
When an inert object like a person
Say waaaa?
It would be great if there were some open source tool kits for this. If the technology is going to exist it should be in the hands of the people.
Yeah, if this shit hast to exist, at least let me use it for presence detection in Home Assistant without having to buy separate sensors or something!
It would be amazing to not have to deploy a network of esp32s to do it with Bluetooth.
Although I’m already putting one in each room.
Probably just need a protocol to work with the data, however it can be interfaced with. Is it just measuring signal strength via speed over time?
No cameras (total privacy)
Seems not for long…
Damn, I thought I called it 8 months ago, but that was about reading heart rates using wifi…
If you’re technical you might like enjoy this article that explains how the tracking works. Basically the router can perform math on the interference created by objects moving around the room. It seems like this would have to be part of the router firmware, which doesn’t sound like a standard feature. But if it is, the fix would be to install modified firmware with that function disabled. The smoking gun will be if somebody gets into DMCA trouble for doing this.
Or an open source hardware device that changes your “wifi signature” randomly.
From what I’ve read this is built into the required wifi router for Xfinity. I discovered this when I signed up for Xfinity fiber, had the fiber installed and setup and then cancelled it the same day, because of this and not being able to buy and run my own hardware, and needing to install an app on my phone to manage the router, and apparently not being able to choose my DNS. They required that I rent their hardware for an additional $15/mo. Oh well, at least fiber is in the house now, if anyone wants it in the future. I sure won’t be paying them to spy on me.
Fuck Comcast, still.
That’s because Xfinity offers motion sensing as a feature, which requires this tech in the router. Presumably it’s configurable and costs extra to turn on.
Comcast is why I have starlink
FWIW I was able to use my own router when I set up with Xfinity recently
This was fiber, if that makes a difference. I asked the install guy, he called his boss, because no one had asked him that before. He told me “no, it’s not allowed”. Also, I tried plugging the patch cable directly into my own wifi router and nothing.
“This technology turns every router into a potential means for surveillance,” warns Julian Todt from KASTEL. “If you regularly pass by a café that operates a WiFi network, you could be identified there without noticing it and be recognized later – for example by public authorities or companies.”
Later…
Inexpensive or older routers either don’t store history at all or keep it for a short time.
Newer models can store more information for more extended periods.
https://www.thetechwire.com/how-long-does-a-router-store-history/
We used to recommend people to run the newest stuff possible, but we came to a point that maybe it’s better for us to keep with older tech for a good while
From what I’ve just read, the tech doesn’t seem ready to identify people yet. It can supposedly detect hand gestures, but facial recognition I seriously doubt. But that’s probably just a matter of improving the tech. See this article for more info.
that’s a trivial problem to solve. combine this with a camera for facial recognition in a public space. then you’ve got wifi signature combined with the photo/video for facial recognition. then presumably you can use the WiFi signature anywhere else, even without the camera and be able to identify people.
Have fun watching me be balls deep in my partner, fed boys. Be jelly cause you can’t fuck like me.
I’m already envious 🙂↕️
It‘s like the phone sonar tech from the Dark Knight everyone said was total BS but totally real…
Router and WiFi Access Point are different things. There are tons of routers that do not have WiFi.
Most people in a “technology” forum completely understand this and yet are also still capable of reading and understanding TFA.
No. People here are conflating all routers (what our dumb dumb government forbade) with wifi access points, alleging that the wifi surveillance capability is the reason for the probibition.
Would carrying around some sort of Wifi disruptor help against this? It would likely have to be a passive persistent effect, not something like an EMP (but those we can reserve for particularly annoying snoopers).
I’m not sure about wifi but cell jamming has been heavily criminalized and tracked
wifi jamming would be much more localized and would affect far fewer people than a cell jammer
We are already being so criminalized for existing, so what?
Particularly annoying snoopers sounds like some people in my nieghborhood
I need to move 🚚
Comcast Is watching you masturbate. Awesome.
I mean, they kinda already were.
Especially if they’ve been opening all those videos I’ve sent
back to ethernet where possible
may soon be able to
That means “yesterday’s spy tech” that now they will leak to public, because they have a way better way.
I’m not sure of the current state of my tinfoil hat.Uh-oh, Trump just put a yuge tariff on Chinese tinfoil.
Building codes should probably include Faraday-cage type shielding.
I’m wondering if some types of crystal can absorb or distort the signals enough to make you harder to identify. I mean I guess you’d be “that guy with the crystals in his pocket” and would be easy to correlate to
CCTVflock, but if everyone does it it could create a layer of obscuration.Especially things with piezoelectric and/or electromagnetic effects. I’m thinking mainly along the lines of quartz, tourmaline, pyrite, tiger’s eye (hematite/jasper), shungite, etc.
It would be worth experimenting with if anyone tries that open source software another commenter linked…
You’d just need metal for this.
I guess lining hats with tinfoil is no longer solely for the paranoid…
That would prevent cell signals from inside, making it harder to (e.g.) call the fire department, or an ambulance.
the return of landlines is nigh
Honestly, we’d be better off at this point.
That could be fixed by using WiFI calling, getting a VoIP line or installing a cell booster.
WiFi calling will make a direct beacon to follow, as any other WiFi use would. Faraday cages would block WiFi calling, as with any other signal.
I think these techniques can use the reflection of the signal from the AP’s own transmissions, no additional devices needed.
The Faraday cage will keep the WiFi signals inside the building. Nobody will be able to track you from outside and your own trusted devices will work fine inside. Just don’t bring any untrusted WiFi devices inside the Faraday cage.
Kinda defeats the purpose of wifi
I would not be wild about that. I use my wifi outside.
The Dark Knight tech was a lot closer than we realized in 2008.
