x11 when you try to use 2 monitors that don’t have the exact same atomic composition:
Im on boring mint, and Wayland sucks on it. Literally disables my ctrl and shift keys, and volume keys, and backgrounds are only black. Unusable. And I have all amd, 13 year old cpu. Oh and it screws up video playback
I like XFCE because is simple and my PC is a toaster with an NVIDIA card so…whenever I have XFCE on Wayland I’ll switch to it.
rstudio and octave is holding me back T_T
they should just work under wayland without supporting it. what’s the problem with them?
I’ve tried a few distros recently (Bazzite, Nobara, Debian…), all with Plasma+Wayland, and none of them work with my Wacom Intuos. Nobara with Gnome works fine (that’s what I’m using in the meantime), albeit with a limited feature set: can’t remap tablet area, can’t use or remap the tablet buttons.
So, I’ve narrowed it down to something inbetween Plasma and Wayland. That’s all I know for nowI use the tablet as a pointing device -using a mouse hurts my wrist after roughly 20mn (old injury). So it really is an accessibility issue…
I have said this a few times before, apologies, but I’m hammering it because it’s not notorious enough.
libinput is a major component in that area. you should ask around here: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/libinput/libinput also have a look at the existing open/closed issues
Thanks ! Wacom support just replied to me with a link to their linux packages repo, I have some reading ahead of me
I would post about it on the Fedora forums with details about what doesn’t work and details about your injury. (If you are willing)
Yes, I might do that, thanks for the advice.
This is what I am going to think about every time I am being stubborn and refusing to move until all my demands are met. “I shouldn’t back down, I’m Christopher fuckin’ Walken!”
I’ve considered switching several times in the past, but each time there was something I needed that was not supported (e.g. - this issue with Zoom screen sharing)
In the last of these times I found no such dealbreaker, but I did want to try a dualboot setup - or dual-login, actually, because I should be able to switch at the greeter - first, to make sure I’m not breaking anything I need for work. This required switching from LightDM to a display manager that supports both X11 and Wayland. I don’t remeber which one I’ve chosen, but I do remember having hard time installing it (I think I couldn’t get it to launch i3 for whatever reason)
I’ve just checked and is seems LightDM supports Wayland now, so maybe it’s time to try the switch again. Being able to use my current DM means I’m not going to risk breaking anything. Probably.
Yeah, so, switching to wayland still break copy/paste from terminal apps, still requires me to disable all hardware acceleration lest firefox freeze and plasma’s effects are visually broken, and it randomly swap my screen on each boot.
Meanwhile, no issue at all on X. I’ll still wait a bit.
I had the same thing. I think I solved it by installing xclip.
Wait, is wayland the reason copy paste doesnt work and inserts weird character and brackets all the time?
I get that on x11. Then I re paste and the wierd characters go away. Its odd
I think what you’re having is when the ‘pastee’ application is expecting shift-ctrl-v but you’ve used ctrl-v or vice versa.
That sounds more like escape sequence not being interpreted, but maybe? It’s a mess.
Basically, in some implementations (it’s true for at least KDE Plasma), the console app is never seen as “active” (the terminal emulator is), and as such can’t access the clipboard, something like that. There’s third party program you can use, and plugins for things like VIM, but when you get a step further with remote clipboard it’s even worse. And even when solutions exists, there’s weird caveat like “it will work all the time except if you’ve clicked somewhere in the past few seconds” or something.
I’m sure things will improve over time, but “we’re not there yet”.
Ok thanks, i quiet like kde but it is very annoying to not be able to copy paste without cleanup.
Meanwhile I’m here on Wayland because it does things that x11 doesn’t.
Like wreck the playability of your games? ;)
It actually does wreck the playability of games for me by disabling the ctrl and shift key. A known issue no one has bothered to look into. I cant complain tho, theyre working their butts off for free
You must use a different Wayland than I do.
I play competitive multiplayer games with VRR on a 4k240 monitor in a tiling wm with direct scanout. Color management support (HDR, 10bit, anything beyond 8bit sRGB) is also coming along.
I’ve never had a better working setup than this. Everything on X was painful. Even just getting vsync to work properly used to be tricky in some cases.
I agree that wayland does miss features compared to X but a lot of them are conscious design decisions and don’t affect me personally. For example running graphical applications remotely through e.g. SSH or the complete lack of security allowing any application to easily read my keyboard input.
If by “WRECK” you mean “improve” yes.
if variable high refresh rate on my game monitor while discord and YouTube run at 60hz on the other wrecks playability, then definitely
I’m not one of those people who loves tearing though, so its good enough for me
Xorg never worked quite right for me with multiple displays of different resolutions, orientations and refresh rates. Even after extensive setup, I would get screen tearing effects all the time. In wayland, everything just works OOTB for me.
I set TearFree in the mesa driver settings (not sure if it’s amd only?) so there’s no tearing even without vsync, I have a small 50hz display and a 1080p 120hz without issues
I miss screensavers :(
Me too… :((
It’s fucking weird people have such strong opinions about issues like X11 and systemd. They’re meant to be working in the background away from the user, and that’s exactly how I treat them. Actually systemd still provides some functions a user might have to interact with manually, for X11 I’m just baffled.
When I take an uber, I don’t care whether the car has an automatic or manual transmission.
When I take an uber, I don’t care whether the car has an automatic or manual transmission. But I care what MY CAR has! Especially since there isn’t a shop for my car and I have to do all my own maintenance. Like, init/systemd is a huge architectural change, it’s weird to you that people who depend on their computer to perform whatever function gives their life meaning and viability want to have a functional grasp of their system? That’s a big change to absorb for essentially no practical benefit to the problem domain.
I think the average user wouldn’t care, Linux just attracts nerds. And I think it’s totally fine and even good that people care how their computer works—it shows that users care about their software working for them, rather than just wanting to go along with whatever is given to them. I think a lot of the positions people take about these things are very silly, but I’d still prefer someone to have a silly opinion about X11/Wayland or pid 1 than to not have an opinion at all. It’s nice that users are being actively involved in deciding what they want their system to be; it’s a nice change from the average user who’s like “well microsoft is screenshotting my screen every 5 seconds and feeding it into copilot now, guess I’m going along with that”.
Gnome forced me onto Wayland a few weeks ago and I’ve been dealing with issues ever since. Some issues even affecting the most basic level tasks like typing text, imagine dealing with that in 2025. Following your analogy, if the Uber with the fancy new transmission came to a halt every kilometre, you’d care too.
Same here. All amd. 13 year old cpu. Wayland has a ton of issues and 0 noticeable improvements for me.
Nvidia?
Not even, amd on both my laptop and desktop, but still lots of issues. None of them major, but it adds up.
There are still existing issues with wayland that do not exist on X11. I’m talking, using last-gen consumer grade hardware that will break basic applications like, who knows, a web browser. Meanwhile the “upside” are extremely marginal to a lot of people. Different screen scaling isn’t implemented using proper DPI on most implementations, variable refresh rate is not something most people care about (I sure don’t care that my second monitor is capped at 120Hz instead of 144Hz because of my first monitor), etc.
So, yeah, for some people, it’s not a matter of preference, it’s a matter of having a stable, working system vs. a broken system where basic features are not a given.
If you took an uber and the car was a horse-driven carriage and your seat was a hole in a rotted plank, you’d complain.
In my eyes, it’s the same deal as conservatives coping with the changing world. There is a version where they just shut up and let the rest of the tech landscape improve while they happily stick to the X they know (X.org or even XLibre).
Bring in politics is a choice
You aren’t wrong though
Unless I’m terribly misunderstanding the word’s meaning (or anglophones once again redefined a word to reflect their current sensibilities), “conservative” doesn’t automatically imply politics, just that someone is resistant to new ideas. A person who only listens to music produced before the 20th century and goes into a rage when video game music composers are mentioned is a conservative, but not in terms of political views.
while they happily stick to the X they know
Getting left behind is the natural and inevitable consequence of obsolescence.
Huh, why do I hear someone shouting about Windows 11 requiring TPM?
Yes, the people who refuse to either upgrade to Win11-compatible hardware or move to an OS compatible with their existing hardware will eventually get left behind. Both in terms of security and compatibility. It’s happened many times, from the fall of AGP in favour of PCIE, to every time Intel inroduced a new CPU socket. X11 is the next.
I used to use some features that only worked on x11. Slowly I found alternatives or workarounds on wayland. So I understand the sentiment. Imagine you book an uber but it’s electric so they say you can’t book a ride that’s too long
I love your metaphor because it is exactly the kind of pedantry that is usually at play with X11 vs Wayland.
“I can’t take an electric uber because it has an effective range less than 400 miles!”
Who the fuck takes a uber to a destination over 4 hours away?
A normal person rents a car, takes a bus, catches a train or buys a plane ticket. Ain’t no one faring a uber for a long trip to another city. But that’s exactly the kind of complaints from people obsessively clinging to X11. They have a hyper specific use case or workflow that almost no one else uses.
I’d have to change desktop environments, because my current one only has “experimental” support in the latest version, and my distro is years behind, anyway. Your choices are pretty much KDE, Gnome or building your own desktop with a standalone window manager, and I don’t like any of those options.
Correcto X11 just works for me, never had any issues, there is literally zero benefit for me swapping over.
Every time I am booted into a Wayland session, something doesn’t feel, look or work right which causes me pain and suffering through my OCD which i don’t have.
I’m planning on trying hyprland soon though because it can look very pretty so if I swap over to that then yes I’ll be a wayland pleb, but in that case there’s a real reason to me swapping… not just for zero benefit.
IMO Wayland surpassed X11 a long time ago… As it doesn’t shit in the pants with tearing on video play or touchscreens with multi-screen.
Is it perfect? No. But X11 isn’t perfect either.
X11 is heavily outdated and vulnerable, but it features one thing Wayland doesn’t: it works with everything.
So, if Wayland checks your points, go Wayland. If something breaks - X11 is there to back you up.
When I first got into linux, I was having trouble with sound issues, and my track pad had pointer acceleration and was always the wrong speed.
Wayland apparently had a fix for the trackpad settings not taking, so I switched to logging in with Wayland before it was the distro default, and almost all of my problems disappeared instantly. The only real issue I had then was screen sharing, which is fixed now.
X11 has only given me problems. I’m sure it was great at one point, but it certainly did not back me up.
Not even always true. For me, Wayland is the only thing that runs decently on my Frankenstein monster of a setup, while X11 makes everything run insanely slow. I think everyone should try both at some point
Interesting
I think in on Wayland now.
But honestly I don’t know, I’m just doing updates as they come and it just works.
when endeavour switched over to wayland my session just completely stopped working. couldn’t get past the login screen. had to reinstall xorg from tty. not touching that again until i get new hardware.
