Because they wiped their ass with a communal sponge.
The shared gut bacteria provided the micronutrients that are needed to develop the intelligence that can handle the complexity.
OP needs to get topped more to compensate.
The number of people who have no clue how much processing goes into making rice edible is hilarious.
Or just to grow it. Rice is stupid hard compared to wheat.
As well as regional factors. They both grow in totally different environments.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352250X1930082X
I remember reading about this concept and how rice growing cultures differ from wheat growing. Our agricultural past has had long lasting impacts.
The ignorance around rice is what gets me on this one. It’s almost troll level.
You can eat wheat right out of the head (the top part of the wheat stalk). No processing required (other than threshing it - removing it from the husk).
We have tried to grind, dry, ferment, bake, broil, boil, and fry everything on the face of the earth. Countless times. Humans have had the same brainpower for ages, just not the same knowledge base.
wheat makes beer
beer yeast and wheat makes bread
wheat made pasta
wheat grows well in colder climates.
Wheat is a bit of a weed so it’s grown on more marginal land while more profitable (finicky) plants are grown in the better land.
This weirdly makes wheat more vulnerable to climate change.
Be hooman, eat much seed. Seed good. Wheat like seed. Wheat good. Rock smash seed, easy eat seed.
Rain make smash seed taste funny. Fire make rain smash seed tastey. Society.
It’s actually been theorized that beer was a driving factor for humanity discovering agriculture.
There’s also a theory (maybe the same as you mentioned) that says man settled down because they had to stay in one place for the whole brewing process.
Historical giggling intensifies.
The communal sponge is peak hygiene, stop dissing it
It’s pretty simple, really. Rice doesn’t grow everywhere.
Can confirm. I’m currently at Tim Horton’s and there’s no rice growing.
But there is bread available, isn’t there? I rest my case.
Is the Tragically Hip song Wheat Kings playing though?
One guy can grow and harvest a wheat field large enough to feed his family, but rice requires a lot of community organization to grow.
There’s an interesting hypothesis called the Rice Hypothesis that theorizes that the different styles of farming rice vs wheat shaped our societies in ways that are still prevalent today. Farming rice led to strong collectivism in society, while farming wheat led to strong individualism in society. Perhaps this is what has led to our differences in ideologies and governing systems.
All grass based crops encouraged group cooperation. Plants like potatoes remain safe in the ground until you need them. But all cereal crops require harvesting at a specific time. You can’t just harvest enough wheat as you need it. This means you inevitably have to have a stockpile of grain to get through the year. And a stockpile of already harvested and prepared grain makes you an instant target for raids by opposing groups.
Cereal crops of all forms necessitate cooperation.
I mean, everything in life requires cooperation, but that’s not the point. Rice took twice as many labor hours as wheat and required more irrigation. According to Shenshi Nongshu, “if one is short of labor, it is best to grow wheat”. Also studies have shown that in China people in historically rice farming areas behave more collectively than those in wheat regions. Not all grasses behave the same way and need the same things, especially with how much we’ve bred them to our needs.
I also like the one where western people are good at stuff like telescopes and magnifying lenses because they drink wine, which is a pretty color, where as the Chinese drank clear alcohol so they didn’t get as good with glasswork
Oh interesting, I haven’t heard of that. I’ll have too look into it, thanks!
Also in regards to lenses and pretty things, because pottery and paper were already so massive industries in China, they didn’t see use for glass as much as Europe which needed it for windows and whatnot.
So then Europe had the advantage in glassworking and thus got some scientific instruments (such as beakers and lenses) first.
How much of that was of because wine, I couldn’t say. But I would like to mention that a gene for naturally being (much more) intolerant to alcohol is more common in Asia than in Europe. But how long it’s been more common is a question I couldn’t answer, as it might be more of a consequence than a cause, with how fast evolution works. (ie Europe has had strong liquor for centuries and you can see from places which only recently got liquor how much more prevalent alcoholism is — it gets filtered out pretty fast as if you’re dependant on alcohol and sauced all the time you prolly might not procreate, unless you’re not that intolerant to it and manage to function.)
Fascinating theory. I’ll have to go down that rabbit hole tomorrow.
Also, a very different climate and soil.
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Wheat is a more modern staple than you might imagine. Millet was more widespread than rice or wheat for much of Eurasia.
Wheat is easier to grow and requires less water. The first farmers in the Middle East became farmers almost acidentally. When they transported the wheat, the dropped crop started growing more and closer to where they were processing it. Eventually some of them decided they would rather grow the wheat than being part of a nomadic tribe. This will eventually lead to a population boom where women would have children every year rather than every four years.
Also more protein in wheat compared to rice. Actually a lot more nutrients in wheat compared to rice.
Ok great but how did they figure out you could EAT IT if you did a shitload of seemingly random shit to it that you don’t have to do with, like, any other crop?
Sounds like you’re assuming step 1 of eating it was processing it into bread. Beyond that, ancient people eventually tried to eat everything. Seeds, grains, and nuts were not uncommon.
You can boil whole grain wheat down into porridge. It’s not the go-to use for wheat now, but the rice cooking method still provides a nutritious meal.
Yeah makes sense, thats always kind of how I thought it went down. Can’t be picky about your calories, can ya, great great great great great great great granpappy Cruxifux.
Insects, cats, random mushrooms, anything when you’re hungry enough.
All you need to do to make wheat edible is soak it in water to make it soft enough to chew. Wheat in water is “gruel”.
You can improve upon it by boiling, which will dehydrate the gruel into a primitive bread. The drained, starchy liquid, if left to sit for awhile, will become a primitive ale. Grinding makes it easier to eat.
Every dietary use is an evolutionary progression from soaking wheat in water.
Yup, it’s not so much that wheat requires all of this processing, it just makes it tastier and easier to eat.
I reckon that after inventing farming, people probably just had a lot more time on their hands, so they sat around trying to come up with ways to avoid having to eat the same boring gruel every day.
I reckon that after inventing farming, people probably just had a lot more time on their hands,
AFAIK farming actually took a lot more work hours than hunting+gathering, it’s just less risky. But yeah, simple soaked or boiled grain is pretty boring compared to meat, berries and nuts.
I mean, people obviously still engaged in hunting and gathering (they do to this day) to enrich their diet, it just wasn’t as crucial to survival.
Also, most of the work of farming happens in the spring and the fall (i.e. sowing and harvesting seasons). The rest of the year it’s pretty hands off, which gives you plenty of time to engage in other activities.
Sure, but hunter-gatherers still have tons of free time. There are still people who live like that, people have observed and studied them.
Interesting!
You don’t have to do all of that to eat it, you just have to do all of that to make bread. You can make bread from oats, you can also process it less and make porridge.
You can also just straight up eat it. Yeah, you’ll get runny shits from eating excessive amounts of fiber, but that’s probably the first way it was eaten
I mean you’ll probably get runny shits from eating it due to the excess fiber, but I’m fairly certain the ancient nomadic tribes who first started eating wheat like that probably had significantly more fiber in their diets than modern man and eating it like that would probably be far less of a shock to their system than us puny fiber weaklings.
You are correct but no need to say “modern man”. Biologically we are the same as those humans. We would just need to adjust to the new diet. Our bodies can still handle their lifestyle
To clarify by modern man, I meant a human living in the year 2026 who eats a “modern diet” of (at least partially) processed foods with significantly lower fiber intake than that of a preindustrial man. (Obviously this would be excluding currently living humans who are living in tribal conditions, such as those living in North Sentinel Island.)
I was not attempting to imply that those living at that time were of a different species than homosapiens. To be honest if they were a different species I’m not sure my comment would have made sense as different homo species would likely have subtle differences in their digestive tracks than homosapiens.
Our bodies never stopped evolving. Where do you think lactose intolerance (or lack thereof) is coming from? Originally it was just a few that could drink milk, now it’s a significantly higher percentage of the population.
I think modern can be used in the sense of being not adjusted to harsher conditions
mmm hallucinogenic grain fungus.
And planted…
In the conditions in which they made it, porridge was often also beer(ish).
Are you saying wheat domesticated early man?
It’s more accurate to say all plants have always domesticated humans. We came after them, we depend on them to survive, we’re required to consume their waste to live, so we can’t live without them. They, however, have the option of consuming our waste to live, but are perfectly capable of living without us, and will likely continue to do so after we’re extinct.
It’s not a novel observation
To be fair, I’m one of the 10,000, so it was novel to me!
Does this mean we were conned into accidentally domesticating cats?
I thought cats domesticated themselves
Wheat doesn’t actually require all that much. Soak it in water, and it becomes gruel. Let gruel sit around for awhile, the liquid becomes a rudimentary ale. Boil off the liquid, you have a rudimentary bread. Want to make it easier to eat? Grind it before you add the water.
Every other use is an evolution of those basic concepts.
wheat is overrated, I can’t even eat it with out shitting myself and eventually developing cancer. Its because my genes are too evolved to eat it or something
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nah I am fully diagnosed celiac - immune system attacks itself in the presence of any wheat or barley
You can’t grow rice where there isn’t a proper water supply so much so that your field is basically a swamp until it’s time to harvest. Meanwhile wheat and barley doesn’t need much water to cultivate.
I don’t think rice requires water? It just tolerates it fine, so it’s useful for pest/weed control?
It requires water but not the same stagnant levels it used to. Modern cultivation is done with a series of inter connected Levees that allow the water to flow at lower levels than it used to be grown in.
You’re thinking of something else, rice requires the land it’s planted on to be under some centimeters of water. Just look for any image of a rice field. Only when it’s ready to harvest that the field can be drier
EDIT: thanks for the replies, folks, those are some interesting rice facts!
There are varieties of rice that don’t require flooded fields. They’re called upland rice. They have issues with weeds and pest control that regular rice doesn’t have, but these varieties still manage to feed about a hundred million people.
Just because that’s what you see on photos doesn’t mean it’s the only way to grow it, it just means it’s the most efficient way. I had a quick look and found multiple sources corroborating GPs information: rice doesn’t need to be under centimeters of water, it’s only done to improve yield (by combatting weeds and pests).
Actually flooding rice drowns it.
Unfortunately the traditional system for growing rice has prevented realisation of plants’ natural potential by transplanting them too late, by spacing them too closely, and by cutting off the oxygen supply to their roots by continuous flooding of paddies. SRI changes practices that are thousands of years old to bring out rice plants’ significant possibilities for greater yield.
AFAIK rice does not require that water, it’s just that it can survive it, unlike most weeds.
This phenomenon is even stronger with (most types of) Maize (excluding sweet corn). It requires heavy processing to be turned into glucose sirup or anything resembling edible food. By default, the grains are extremely durable and very difficult to digest.
But this is essentially what protects it from insects and fungus. Because the grains are so hard to digest by default, they can only be eaten by humans who have the tools to heavily process them before eating; for everyone else it’s essentially uninteresting as a food source and that prevents mold and insects.
What type of corn are you referring to? I’m not familiar with the history of corn, but what you’re saying doesn’t match my experiences with any variety
Dent corn is used as livestock feed, and is generally considered the less edible version. Sweet corn can be eaten by humans raw. Basically every variety I’ve ever seen can be eaten if boiled long enough
Sweet corn is a mutation that was only really cultivated in the late 1700s. Before that dent and flint corn were the norm. These corns require nixtamalization to soft the corn and then need boiling, grinding, and cooking to make something like tortillas.
Sweet corn is also harder to store if harvested at a flavorful stage. Up until canning became widespread, there was no easy way to store corn without drying it out.
Yeah, the effect is stronger for dent corn.
Dent corn can last upwards of 20 years when stored correctly.
I’m not sure what that number is for other cereals but i guess it’s less long.
Corn (Maize) is a selected grass. (Teosinte) Wheat is also a grass (Emmer) which hasn’t been nearly as modified.
The american indigenous people cultivated and developed corn over 10,000 some years. An ear of corn can be boiled and eaten. Wheat? Not so much.
You can absolutely boil wheat, so I am not sure I follow…
I guess I meant more along the lines of: “An ear of corn can be husked by hand and boiled.” Individual processing is far more accessible and feasible compared the threshing, hulling, and winnowing processes of wheat.
Have you not heard of corn on the cob? Just pull off the husk, boil, and eat.
I can’t tell if this is in jest or ignorance.
Sweet corn is a recent invention.
And great, you’ve got the months of July and August covered. How are you going to survive fall, winter, and spring? Corn doesn’t become a staple crop until it can be stored year round, maybe between years to alleviate famine.
My point being that corn only needs to be boiled to be easy to eat. Going around like it’s completely inedible is ridiculous.
And your second “point” is a complete red herring. It applies to almost any crop outside of its harvest season. Those vegetables you’re buying at the grocery store? They’re not being stored year round. They’re grown in Mexico and South America before being imported. That’s how you’re able to get tomatoes in March.
My point being that corn only needs to be boiled to be easy to eat.
Sweet corn harvested at the milky stage, sure. But wait until the kernels are reddish brown and they won’t be great. And that’s a variety that was developed like 1500 years after the Romans were wiping their asses with sponges, so not relevant to the conversation about ancient prehistoric people developing a staple crop.
Go boil a jar of popcorn and see how practical it would be to try to eat flint corn with just some boiling.
Plus nixtamalization improves the nutrition of cornmeal so that it can meet more of human nutritional needs.
And your second “point” is a complete red herring. It applies to almost any crop outside of its harvest season.
It doesn’t apply to staple crops. Wheat, rice, millet, sorghum, buckwheat, beans, and potatoes can be stored long term, so entire civilizations came up around them millennia ago. Sweet corn harvested at an edible stage can’t be, at least not without refrigeration or canning technology.
All this is to say yeah, the civilizations built around maize as a staple crop had to figure out nixtamalization.
